Episode 3 - Rowena Hubble, Woolworths Group

Transcript Please note that this has been transcribed by AI/Bots so there may be typos and the occasional strange things happening. The Numbers People Podcast - Episode 3 - Rowena Hubble, Woolworths Richard Holmes 0:02 Welcome to the numbers people podcast in partnership with HPR Consulting a leading Sydney executive finance recruitment firm. I'm your host, Richard Holmes. In Episode Three, we welcome Rowena Hubble. Rowena is a senior finance executive at Woolworths group. She's passionate about building high performing teams developing strong business partnerships, and achievement results through a focus on business strategy and objectives. She operates as a transformational leader having led multiple successful transformations, including team restructuring to support business growth, system implementation, and outsourcing. Rowena is also the author of live workshops on how to use your time for what matters. Rowena How are you? 0:50 I'm really well, Richard, how are you? Richard Holmes 0:52 Yeah, I'm very well, very well, thanks. I've known Rowena for a number of years. And she's got a reputation of being a great finance leader. I think, with this talk in the podcast, I think she's got a really interesting story. And I think we're gonna take a lot from, from what she's got to say. So Rowena, do you want to tell us about your story? RH Rowena Hubble 1:12 Yeah, so I've been in finance for a long, long time, I actually introduced myself to attend the other day and said, I have been in finance longer than some of them been online. So which is good. Um, so I got all those years ago started my working career at McDonald's, they had like a PayPal. So I do. Sorry, I tell a lie. I did work at a company called Gresham partners, which is a small investment bank. At the very start of my career for a couple of years. I did my whole degree, part-time and, you know, look at anyone that does it degree part-time, I think, you know, there's some amazing skills and resilience that you learn through that I spent a long time working at McDonald's, I guess, worked my way up through the chain in the finance team and slowly just took on more and more responsibilities. I was the financial controller and don'ts at the time, I had two young sons. I then decided to take a guess a step away from a large corporate for a while and worked for myself for about six or seven years and worked for some really small but really interesting companies, small ASX listed company that was developing device for the heart, you know, an insurance company lots of different things. I then not through design, but I ended up back at McDonald's, and an amazing company to work for. But after a couple of years, I thought, you know what, I do need to spread my wings. So I then moved to net cash and worked at net cash for three years initially, as a group, financial controller, and then took on responsibility for transformation. Within finance, which Richard Holmes 3:16 excellent. And with, we can move on from McDonald's, you were there for a number of years. What was the catalyst for moving from there? She had a good reputation. I think at the time you were you were a director of the charity the foundation, Ronald McDonald House. We've obviously a big move for you. Moving on from McDonald's. RH Rowena Hubble 3:36 Yeah, I think I, to be honest, there was a little bit of me that felt like I was a little stale. And then I had been in one company for a long time, albeit in very different positions. I felt whilst I got some amazing experience from McDonald's, I felt like there was a lot more for me to learn, I do think that what was missing from my CV was a six listed company experience. And I also you know, I like to feel like that I give as much as I receive and felt like I had given as well as received a lot from McDonald's and wanting to be able to give to other organizations as well. So yeah, it wasn't an easy decision to make but I also didn't want to feel like I'm been literally in a hole in one organization my whole career. So that's when I decided one to look for a role that was within a six listed company to feel that people that gap and just you know, potentially a different industry that I could get some greater experience and I guess share my wisdom if you live with another company as well. Richard Holmes 4:50 No, that's great. And now you're currently at what was is the Group Controller. How culturally wise mean? They're two huge organization's McDonald's in a world with culturally wise that? How would you explain that? Or the very similar or? RH Rowena Hubble 5:08 So I would have, I would have previously said McDonald's was a launch company. And yes, it is globally a large company, but I look at McDonald's. Now in comparison with less than say, oh, my goodness, that's like a comedy. So worse, and everyone who works there will say the same thing. It is a big, big company. So our head office has got, you know, three and a half thousand people in the office. So I think that actually takes a while. And it certainly took me a while to get used to that. It's also Yeah, just understanding Yeah, we're, we're getting to know the different groups around the organization, it really does take time, but I feel like, you know, I'm now almost in, I now got to know a lot of people. And, you know, being the size of the company, it is there is so much opportunity within us, which is the really exciting thing about it. I think. Richard Holmes 6:11 That's, that's great. And you've achieved a lot in your career. And as you touched on before, you've been in a number of different roles. What advice would you give to someone wanting to pursue a career like yours was? At the time it might those that have a fair design career path for yourself? Or did that come through opportunity? RH Rowena Hubble 6:31 Yeah, I probably, yeah, if I, the things I get people advice from are probably the things that I probably like Don, and think, some things that I think I would have done differently. And some things, I guess that I think they've held me in good stead. So the things that I perhaps would have done a little bit differently. So whilst I absolutely did move around a lot in roles within McDonald's, I think I could have pushed you and different opportunities probably more regularly than I did. So I was very safe, it was very safe for I guess, McDonald's and I to retain remaining certain positions. So you know, for someone who is looking to pursue a career, whether it's in finance, or whatever it is, I would encourage and challenge everyone to ensure that you get as much exposure and move into as many different levels as you can. The other I guess, learning I'd have, or advice I would give anyone starting out. And again, it doesn't matter whether you're doing a finance role, whatever role you're doing, is to have a mentor. So I have to admit, that's not something that I've had a lot of in my career and I do that's something that I feel like I hadn't really and missed out on. So on the flip side are the things that I would advise that I feel like I have done really well in my career. So I, you know, I would say I'm a people leader before, I'm a finance leader. So I'm I, I firmly believe, if you can master the people component of mastering your team, then everything else will work itself out. So if you can get the right culture, the right chain mix, that everyone is humming and moving together, working really well together, then, you know, the work will just sort itself out. So one is being really really conscious of if your team and how you're, you're operating together. And the second one, which is another passion of mine is his work life or I like to call it life-work balance that, you know, I like the saying you don't do a good job if your job is all you do. And so, you know, if you think that you're going to be times when you do need to absolutely put work ahead of things outside of work, but unless you've got any when we say balance, it's not that you're going to you know, work half-awakened, you know, spent half a week on a beach, but maintaining interests, you know, family friendships, etc activities, interests outside of work, as well as in Swat side work. I remember someone once saying to me that you don't often have people that are successful in their work environment if they've got a terrible home environment. So and but on the flip side, if you've got setting yourself up well from your life outside of work and giving himself every opportunity to excel in inside work as well. So sorry, I'm very long-winded and 10:11 that's great. Richard Holmes 10:13 And that leads are because I was going to ask what what what does culture mean to you, but it's, it's very much in your touching a couple of times, it's people-focused, isn't it? When you have the right people, the rest falls into place, and that you give them the right work-life balance the Excel is that when you've seen with RH Rowena Hubble 10:31 too many cultures, the way we do things. So I think trust is a huge thing. And I think it's it's one positive thing that's come out of COVID, you know, there was a lot of leaders and managers that didn't trust their employees or team members to work from home previously. And now they've had no choice and just realize, actually, by giving people that trust, you know, what a difference it can make. So I think trust is, is critical. Respect work both ways. So I'm also a big believer that, you know, in an in a, in a company, everyone has a part to play, whether you are no, the CEO, or, you know, the maintenance, you know, the guy running the car park, we all have a part, an important part to play. And it's important that we treat everyone as an equal, let's have Yeah, a big belief of mine. Richard Holmes 11:31 Yeah, it's true, isn't it? It's, yeah, I think when you hear these stories of people getting spoken down to working in finances, while you hear those stories, where the Andre Serbia kind of micromanagement interesting, or what are people doing kind of thing, but it's, it's interesting. You touched on before Rowena, but you've not had a mentor, but you've, you've obviously had people who, who have influenced you, throughout your career, have any of those stood out, in particular. RH Rowena Hubble 12:00 So I think when I was certainly when I was in McDonald's, the CFO at the time, when I was the control, and that was probably more around the time when I had young kids, and, you know, we all go through times, where we're like, oh, my gosh, this is just so hard. And, you know, just little son crying at the, you know, front gate of the school club needed to get to work. And, you know, I remember, you know, so some of that advice around just, you know, take the time out to deal with, you know, your son starting school and work will work itself out. So, yeah, definitely the, definitely the CFO and McDonald's and interestingly, I mentioned that you know, my first role straight out of school was with question partners, which then was, but is now quite a large investment bank. So, the finance director who I reported to at the time, then he was also Yeah, it just seemed, really influenced me, I guess, I was straight out of school. You know, I was role probably, and just, you know, the way he influenced in them, you know, the way he went about his work and things really, really suited sort of rubbed off on me, as well. So, you know, I've had plenty of people, you know, around me, I probably also, you know, you know, clearly not a mentor, but my, my dad who's now you know, you know, in his 80s and not not in good health, but he's, you know, run his business, a small business for most of his life, and then double loads of work in the community. And he was actually awarded an OEM builder medal a couple of years ago, which was, um, yeah, a really proud moment. So I guess, you know, not perhaps within the workplace, but I feel like, you know, outside of work, he's been a young. Yes, certainly, certainly someone who I've looked up to and I guess I've gotten a lot of my mind dryer from my dad as well. Richard Holmes 14:03 That's, that's quite with, with mentoring. Rowena? I think it has just been it just in the last few years, mentoring has been a bigger thing. Like in my career, I never heard even 10 years ago, who's your mentor? But I think it's, it's important to have I think, for all the people coming through in the teens, having to have a couple of mentors or a few mentors can only be a good thing. It's like, we touched on it before and you want to know what you know, don't you? And just having that one, one bit of advice can can can take you straight up or down a different path. Yeah, you're RH Rowena Hubble 14:35 absolutely right. There's not it really has been the last, I would say five or 10 years that it's become a big thing. I mean, I think back at my McDonald's days, and I would never question you know, the development opportunities that were afforded to everyone there. But really, mentorship wasn't really something that you talked about now, as you know, so I'm mentoring three People were worse. And it's interesting, very, very different. Yes, discussions with the three of them, because they're all looking for different things, which is, and it's great for me to feel like I can, I can certainly, you know, help them along their journey. 15:19 That's, it's great. It's a rewarding as well as industry. 15:22 Absolutely. Absolutely. Richard Holmes 15:25 In terms of that Rowena, how do you continue to learn in order to keep yourself on top of things? RH 15:31 Yeah, so I, you know, they say, you know, what is it 70% of what you're learning is, is on the job, so there's probably not a day that goes by that, you know, I'm learning within the, within the workplace. You know, I do, you know, plenty of reading, whether that's, you know, purely not like, it's not so much just purely technical finance, stuff. But, you know, as I mentioned before, I'm really passionate about, you know, the transformation of finance teams. So, understanding what, you know, finance, different finance teams are doing, what new technology is out there, you know, whether it's just even a new tool that exists, I feel like I've forever got, you know, whether it's a, you know, a podcast, a magazine, a book, something that is, you know, besides me, my children do joke that Mom, you know, that fiction books actually do easiest ways to be reading. I feel like I'm a little bit addicted to just self-help. expert on Yeah. So, yeah, that's how I, you know, continue to develop, and I guess, developing both inside and outside of work. So I've recently come as being a volunteer telephone crisis supporter for lifeline. So yes, that's something I'm doing external to the workplace. But my goodness, there is so many learnings that I've gathered through that process that absolutely apply to how you connect, engage, support people within the workplace. So yeah, Richard Holmes 17:15 yeah, that's great. So I find that as well, I mean, I'm, in my early 40s. Now, and that's self-development and self-learning, just because we're kind of a bit more mature a bit more further along in our careers. I'm learning more in the last couple of years and a half, probably the last 20 years. And these books are amazing. I mean, it's, you pick up these books, I'm reading one at the moment, this one called a tribe of mentors, you see this one, and it's just fantastic by a guy by a guy called Tim Ferriss. RH Rowena Hubble 17:44 So yeah, it's funny, every time someone mentions a book, I write it down. And I've often thought I should correct create a library of self-help books for people because, you know, there are lots of places that you go, that people shouldn't a good open, you either don't get around to getting it or you can't find it or you know, ever and I'm, I must admit, I'm probably showing my age here. But I, I there's something about actually opening a physical book rather than, you know, an order book is good Fairfield run or something. I do like to get to open a physical Richard Holmes 18:24 and what we're talking about books. Tell me about your book. It's, it's called reengineer. your workday quote, tofi life, what was the catalyst for that? RH Rowena Hubble 18:32 Well, actually, that was the original title, which I wrote, I did write the book a couple of years ago, but I actually last year, did ob edit of the book. And so and took the opportunity to actually change the title. So the revised book is actually live work shine, how to use time for what matters. So the book came about, in fact, a time when I was saying what I would probably call a life coach. And we were just talking through of, you know, what my you know, successes have been through my career. And one of the things I said well what I believe was my great It has been my greatest success is that you know, to be completely honest, I would never shy away from being a mum was my number one and still is, even though my sons are grown up is my number one job. And my work my line, finance role was came in a close second. I feel like I've been able to, and yes, there have been times where it was, you know, quite hard and times not as hard, but I've been able to juggle both of them. I feel like I'm able to be there for everything I've wanted to through my children's younger days, as well as maintaining my own, you know, mental, physical, emotional, health interests, etc. And by To succeed in the workplace, unfortunately, you know, through my years I've seen, I would say the majority of my you know, whether they're my peers, more senior, more junior people than me, a lot of people struggling with that they just don't seem to have the time to, to fit in everything they need to fit in. And, you know, I, I reflected and thought, you know, what, if this was just one workplace that I'd work where I've been able to manage my day in reasonable hours, and do all the things outside of work, maybe it was just luck, it was the organization or the, or the role I was in, but I sort of went from organization to organizations, repeatedly, people around me, were going, Oh, my gosh, I've got to work ridiculous hours. And I'd be like, less interesting because I seem to be how to manage it in the hours. So I wrote, the entire reason I wrote, The book was to help people to be able to enjoy life and succeed in the workplace, as well. So, you know, a lot of the content of the book is, is quite logical and common sense. But unfortunately, a lot of us just get like Get, get bogged down by and can't take the time, or don't take the time to step back and actually look at the way we're working in, and how we can actually not only how we're working but how our whole day is so you know, if your alarm, an alarm to get you up every morning, and you know, you've got chaos, by the time you go into the office, or by the time you sit down at a desk, then are you setting yourself up for the, you know, the best, the best start to start to do so. So yeah, so I wrote the book two years ago, and then when I reflected, I thought, you know, what, there was a few things that weren't so engaging in it, and then didn't probably flow that well. So I took a bit of time, outside of work, obviously last, like last year, and just did a few edits to it, and never gonna be a best-seller, probably recover the cost of every, you know, in the, in the, I've done a number of talks, and also, you know, personally helped a number of people. So already tick the box to say that I have achieved the purpose that I broke the book, but let's be honest, I'd love to get to help. So many more people. You know, sometimes they can be just some small tweaks and make a huge difference to people's lives. Richard Holmes 22:38 Yeah, it's, it's true, isn't it? I think you went when I was listening to you than working in finance, recruitment, some companies work massive hours in terms of the finance team, and I think it stems from the leadership, doesn't it, it's the people, given that direction, we see the kind of younger generation coming through. And I've observed, it's peer pressure, it's I will look up, I've done a day's work, but I don't want to be seen as the first person to leave the office. And that that kind of culture still exists in a lot of companies and people kind of work until eight o'clock, nine o'clock, just because the core exam, but I think that stems from from from the actual finance leader itself. RH Rowena Hubble 23:15 Yeah, absolutely. You know, you know, you've got to practice what you preach. So, you know, and I think this period of COVID is going to be interesting to see, as we come out of the pandemic, you know, what does happen? Do people, you know, go back into the office and go back to working long hours, do they? Are they working those long hours? But, ya know, managing, managing time and get everything, getting everything, you know, there's always more to be done. The saying I like is, there's never enough time to do all and nothing that we want to do. Because there's, let's be honest, there's lots of stuff that we do that, you know, isn't probably a great, great use of our time. So anyway, as you can see, it is a passion of mine. Richard Holmes 24:04 Yeah, that's great. That's great. And I think, I think would you book as well, I think any company, any finance team, in particular, should have a copy. So we, we kind of need to get the help that I'm working with now. You're in a great company. what's the biggest challenge you have in your current role and how you're going to phase out over the next couple years? RH Rowena Hubble 24:28 Yeah, I would say, A, it's an opportunity for worse, but it's also a challenge given the size of it. To make any change is is hard. So, you know, our smaller combo companies, you know, is a lot more nimble. And change is easy because you only need to consult to you know, maybe 1010 people, whereas worse, you know if there's an army of people. So no matter what that change is whether it's, you know, implementing a new, you know, financial tool or, you know, we've got, you know, a real focus on risk management and how we improve. Let's be honest, our documentation is not, it's probably not not great. So yeah, I think the biggest challenge is how we continue to positively change, and I'm a huge advocate of change, and be agile in our company decisive if it was, Richard Holmes 25:41 if you had a, an unlimited budget to spend on your team, how would you go about that? Well, the first thing was to make money, RH Rowena Hubble 25:52 I think, yeah, the answer is probably no matter what finance team, you talk, I haven't I've never met a finance professional that says, our systems are just awesome. They all talk and click fingers, and it's all done. So, you know, I think in an ideal world, you know, we would have amazing systems, you know, we've ever invested in automation that, you know, you could have your CFO, you know, talk into a screen and say, please provide me with a forecast for XYZ for the next 18 months, and you wouldn't have, you know, all the automation tools available, that that the number crunching is on and then you would have invested in your finance team. Yeah, you know, there's lots of development happening now. And certainly, business partnering is huge at McDonald's, but you weren't McDonald's, I should say, well, we're sorry, you will, you will continue to invest in your teams in business partnering side. So instead of the number-crunching that would be out of and look at those, the data that spat out of the automated systems, and, you know, did the analysis, spend their time focusing on the insights that have come out of that, out of that data set in order to present and be part of the decision-making table, or whatever, whatever it is discussing. So in short, investing in one the system so that, you know, all the transactional work just got done that, you know, there's a lot of data analysis that's been automated, and then for the finance teams to have the right skill set and development in order to understand what the data is telling them and being able to tell the correct story, and be able to negotiate, etc, to be that real business partner. Richard Holmes 27:53 And that leads nicely into my next question. So the future of finance 10 years from now would be finance, business partnering, robotics automation is going to kick in quite a lot. Do you think in the next few years? Is that the way you perceive yourself? RH Rowena Hubble 28:07 Yeah, I think it'll be in any interesting just into, you know, back in 10 years, and actually, how far have we come? Because I, I do think absolutely, the future is, yes, business. Partnering is what we do and the automation, whether it's robotics, whether it's the systems, whatever, it will take care of all the Yes, the routine finance work, but there is, there is a long way, there is a long way to go. I think we've been we've been talking for quite a few years now about it, you know, it's just around the corner. And I strongly believe it's around the corner, I just don't know how far it is around the corner. Because there is a long way to go and a lot of investment that is needed in systems. And unfortunately, you know, you know, we are back of the house. So, you know, if there's limited Catholic spend, unfortunately, you know, how sometimes is the Catholics suffers? So, yeah, it'll be very, very interesting to see where we get to in five years, 10 years versus maybe 15 years. Richard Holmes 29:25 It's a good point, isn't it? When you kind of reflect the last five years, how far along if we come? There has been a lot of talking in terms of finance business partner like you touched on, I think there's been a lot of advance advances in finance, business power, and the term didn't even exist, even what, seven, eight years ago. And so I think I think we were slowly getting there. But it's to your point, it's just the amount of investment finance he's going to have over the next few years because it's nice to have, isn't it but like, how many companies are just gonna spend millions of dollars given final CAPEX, RH Rowena Hubble 29:57 I guess when you've got the opportunity Spend the funds in increasing whether it's the experience of customers increasing revenue, what you know, grow the business, you know, put yourself in, you know, you know, if you're a shareholder or the board, I know which way I'm going. So Richard Holmes 30:17 it's tricky, isn't it? So when you reflect back, what has improved your working life the most? RH 30:26 What has improved my working life the most? Ah, I wouldn't say anything necessarily, I guess, you know, because as I've gone through my journey, I've gone I've worked in different roles, and, you know, been fortunate that I've been in, in senior roles for a long time. So, you know, I wouldn't say, you know, systems have necessarily made a big impact. On on me, I think, probably, if there was one thing that I would say that has improved, it's probably the value that finance how it is valued in the business. So if I was honest, I would say in the early years of my career, that finance was considered, you know, wasn't really, you know, the bottom of the rung, but certainly not valued relative to other departments in the organization. Whereas now, you know, it's up there with every department. So just even, you know, how that makes you feel and feel valued? You know, I think is, is probably 31:42 the most the big thing. Yeah, Richard Holmes 31:44 I arrived, Sydney in 2006, in the change in just that short period of time, from finance being that back office to now that integral cog has been significantly just, what 14 years in space and, and it's interesting how many CFOs are going into the CEOs. Opportunity? It's, yeah, interesting. And yeah, it's nice to feel valued and respected, isn't it? It's interesting, in a way we deal with some companies where, where finance is still very much you'll just be accountants. We know what we're talking about. Just give us that report when we want it. But I think it's just that that kind of old school generation kind of company stems from the top and tell me something not many people know about you. RH Rowena Hubble 32:32 Something not many people know about me. So I mean, a few people know but all people know I've got a relatively recently taken up an interest in, in marathon. Running so I have an I have a goal to do the six major marathons around the world. Unfortunately, I was down to do Berlin about a month ago. And clearly, that didn't happen. That way, that's, yeah, that's something I'd say outside of that there's not and that's not really, you know, I guess not probably a surprise to me, I like to think that I'm, I'm no different when I'm at home versus when I'm at work. So yeah, if what you see when our work is what I'm like, and Hi, and I'm, you know, conversely, so? Yeah, well, so I'm telling you, marathon runners, I'm, I'm pretty high energy level person. Relaxing is probably, yeah, not one of my strengths. So even though I'm telling you about raffles, it's probably not a surprise to anyone who knows him. Yeah, I do have a lot of energy, which is great. 33:48 So are you a morning person? Do you get up in the morning to go free runs? Or? RH Rowena Hubble 33:53 I am? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I used to always remember years ago, it's thinking I shouldn't have lunch to about three o'clock, because I feel like once I've had lunch, you know, it's on a downhill trajectory. But to be honest, most of us even though you know, some of us will say we're a morning person versus an afternoon or evening person I'm definitely the morning and my husband's night which just didn't work so well. But science has shown that we are all at our cognitive best within two to three hours of actually getting up which is interesting because it mornings then mean is when we were all going to get the most amount of the most productive work done. So that's interesting. Then you've told your husband that Richard Holmes 34:45 It's interesting, you see on social media, like all these successful people get up at 430 in the morning, and, and they've had the meditate and they're all kind of done by 530 and it Then you started with breakfast and you read the schedule in the morning. But I always find it interesting where you see a really successful billionaire who doesn't get out of bed till 11 o'clock in the morning. That just goes against all the sides kind RH Rowena Hubble 35:11 of thing. And I have to say, so meditating, I didn't do it, I sort of did it for a period of time, and I absolutely found benefit in it. But I didn't do it long enough for it to become a habit. And it is something that I consistently think I should be doing. But when I think about you know, because I get up five out of seven mornings a week and do some form of exercise. The thought of having to get up, you know, 15 minutes or 20 minutes earlier to meditate before I go do that exercise. I just haven't got it. I haven't done the morning person. I'm, I'm not as good as those 430. Wake up, people. Richard Holmes 35:51 People know it's good. Well Rowena, thanks for your time. I think this has been really interesting and insightful. Hopefully, our listeners will get a lot out of it. And yeah, it's been a pleasure. And we'll hopefully have you on the podcast again RH Rowena Hubble 36:04 soon. Thank you, Richard. Enjoy chatting as well. 36:07 Excellent. Thanks Rowena