Episode 15, Dilip Kherajani, CFO, Surevision

Transcript Please note that this has been transcribed by AI/Bots so there may be typos and the occasional strange things happening. Richard Holmes 0:02 Welcome to the numbers people podcast in partnership with HPR consulting a leading Sydney executive finance recruitment firm. I'm your host Richard Holmes. Richard Holmes 0:15 In today's episode, we welcome Dilip Kherajani, CFO of Surevision, Australia, New Zealand's premier digital screen solution provider, servicing sports stadiums, retail shopping centres, airport precincts, in digital out of home advertising. From humble beginnings in India, Delhi moved to Australia and worked his way up the career ladder working in multiple finance roles. International SOS, Dilip oversaw the finances of over 18 countries, and in his current role is helping to drive the rapid growth of an industry-leading technology business. Richard Holmes 0:50 His story proves you can achieve a lot with hard work and focus. Richard Holmes 0:56 Dilip, how are you? Good to catch up. Good. Good. Richard, how are you doing? Yeah, very well, very well. Thanks for being part of the numbers people podcast. I've known Dilip for a while now, Dilip was a candidate of mine, got introduced to me and highly recommended by someone. And I think Dilip story is really interesting. And he's progressed a lot in his career. And I think he's got a really good story to share with you. Would you like to tell people about you? Dilip Kherajani 1:20 Absolutely. So, again, my journey has been from humble beginnings in India. I've got a story of resilience and hope, and happy to share it because it illustrates my belief that anything is possible. Dilip Kherajani 1:35 Had a happy childhood. Dad was a finance broker that passed away when I was 12. I had some great memories with him after him passing away, ran his business for a few years, decided that and again, this was me trying to run a business when I was 13 year old. So between 13 to try tried running his business between 13 to 17. And I realized this is not going to get anywhere I decided to wind it up by 19 on the business up, and then we said okay, what do we do Neko, Australia was the destination came over here as a student back in 2006. did my masters of accounting from Macquarie University went on to qualify as a CPA, very fortunate to get an internship at Sony Japanese company, instil all the good habits, right from the start? And the first habit was just being punctual being on time. Doesn't matter what you do all it was all about how you do. Dilip Kherajani 2:30 How do you communicate? Even we've coached on how do you write an email? Okay, right. So those, I think that year and a half. Dilip Kherajani 2:40 Having the right foundation has helped a lot in the career. From there when to work for a small Australian company in Terry hills, had a great time. Dilip Kherajani 2:52 loved working over there still have got great relationships and colleagues over there, moved on to international SOS billion-dollar medical giant started my career as an assistant account and completed as a regional financial controller for the Asia Pacific had a fantastic journey through international SOS. And I think the last seven years have been completely couraging. For myself, the people that I've met, the mentors that I've had, and the work that I've done over there, what I've gone through at international SOS, the training, or the work culture, or even just how do you get along your day to job every single day was different with new challenges in the last three years travelling around 10 countries, being on a flight for almost every 10 to 15 days. Spending time with people in different cultures, looking at numbers for different countries, consolidating the region was a fantastic experience. I finished my center there, took some time off, came back to Australia and completed a year at Surevision. Yeah, Richard Holmes 3:58 yeah. And who you are today, hey, yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting as well, with international SOS. The fact that you backed yourself and you moved overseas and looks after all those countries that can imagine that was career building on character building. At the same time? It's, how did that move overseas come around? Dilip Kherajani 4:18 So I think the way that the career took place, my first big position was doing the financial controlling rules for Papa New Guinea. Okay. And I remember nobody wanted to touch that rule. And when I took that role, people were like, you're setting yourself up for failure. Yeah, right. Like for the most, we put him, half of them had never even heard that name. Completely scary. land at the airport. We had armed guards escorting us. And we had armed guards taking us back to town and then hotel to the office. But again, the two years that I'll say roughly a year back and forth in Papa New Guinea and then you're managing remotely I think I've had the best year where it was a $50 million business, working with top clients like ExxonMobil nucleus mining and working with million-dollar clients over there. Yeah, this was an absolute shambles had to go in. And the biggest job was the clients were extremely beast with a front end delivery, but the back end admin was a complete nightmare. So to go and fix the back end, and in that process, it was all about understanding the business. It was not about why the numbers are looking at it was understanding the reason behind it. So going outside, talking out to medical directors, talking to doctors, nurses, even spending time at remote sites, it's been an entire day in a clinic just to see how patients come in, you know, and how is the service delivery being done? And then tying that back to the numbers? Okay, let's identify, you know, where are the gaps? Where are we losing money from? And it was that experience made me realize that you know, spending that time in Port Morseby was fantastic. So, again, coming back to the question, how that was the first challenging role moving on from there was taking the roll up in signal via region controller for Asia-Pac begin in my last 18 months in Singapore, did Malaysia, Japan, Philippines and I think Japan and Philippines with the two places were absolutely enjoyed myself a lot. And I say the hospitality was fantastic. Yep. People culture. But again, just you sort of thrown into the deep end, you're going into a country where things are messy. People are complaining and complaining. And then it was all about picking the reins up for a short period of time to fix things. And how do you do it around? So it was all about lead by example. And just working with the people. And I think that was the most fun aspect of that. Richard Holmes 6:55 is working with people. I can imagine. Yeah, working with a broken team. Yeah. And just needed that leadership, they can go in. It's good. And now you are here in a safe, orderly growing business. And so when you reflect on your creativity, what advice would you give to someone wanting to kind of follow your career path? Because obviously the move to New Guinea can imagine for most being in people got their opinions on that country. It's a big move. But what advice generally would you have? Dilip Kherajani 7:25 I think the only advice I would say is, no matter what role Are you in, do it properly. Do it 100%, put your head down, work hard. And don't worry too much about the future if you firstly you got to know what you want. And if you've got a career path in mind, it will happen. So when I started as an assistant accountant and international SOS, I had written at the back of my wall, which was my study wall in my house I'd written I'm going to be the financial controller in five years. Okay. And that was day one when I started the job as an assistant accountant, I had no idea how it will happen. But that was the goal. So the key is the focus. And it nearly took me two and a half years was once I was stuck in that role, but I had to work hard in that role. It took me two and a half years before when I was first promoted to financial accounting, okay. But then in a span of that the remaining two and a half years, it went from back to back promotions, and then just getting there. So when you're on your career path advice stay focused. If you want something, you will get something you just got to get within yourself. Yeah. And just make it happen. Richard Holmes 8:37 That's really good advice. And any point about not worrying about the future, I think. I think a lot of people worry about it too much. And you can't really control it. Can you? Yeah, you got to focus on on the job at hand. Yeah, it's all well and good being or want to be a finance controller or a CFO, but you got to be able to do the job you're doing that they're doing it well. In the proportions come from no me working in a technology business. What's the biggest area that you're curious about now? And why? Dilip Kherajani 9:01 I think what I'm curious about is how the business works. Yep. Right. It's about understanding the value chain in the business. So our current business division, we've got we operating in three different streams. And it is all about understanding the value chain of that stream. Okay. Right. So, from a finance perspective, you have you're trying to put the effort in meeting clients, meeting the suppliers going out to the ground, you know, we sports business, the first thing I want my team to do is not sit at the back of the house and do numbers game, it's actually to go off on the ground. See how the bump in and bump outs are done? How does the tech work? Go take a take a round of the control room. And that's what I did in my week one practically. And that's what excites me this role is developing the value chain understanding the business in detail. And then the next focus area is how do you grow the business if you're dining 30 million today why strategy and growth plans you put in place to turn 30 million into 100 million. Yeah. And how do you get onto that journey? And more importantly, how do you get people onto that journey? So So I would say the most exciting part is the growth phase ahead. For sure. Vision. Yep. And we definitely we want to be $100 million company in three to four years. Richard Holmes 10:18 Yeah. Which is, which is great in talking about curiosity as well, though, you mentioned in the role in Papa New Guinea, that you were out in the medical center is a naturally curious person. He worked on that just Dilip Kherajani 10:32 just naturally, again, it is when you look at numbers. So when I again, when I'm looking at numbers, let's say when I'm looking at PnL, for a division, it's all about understanding, okay, if you're looking at costs, half a million costs, who is making up that cost to all those people? If it is people-related, I want to go and meet those people. Right? So I get curious about where they coming from? Or if I'd say there's a supply chain cost of 100,000? We don't understand, okay, who is the supplier? Right? Where are things being supplied to and how those things being used? Once you understand that, then you can start putting a story behind the numbers. For example, like, Okay, my GPA was 50, unfavourable or favourable. But that's not my entry. It's about what happened. Why were you favourable or unfavourable? So that curiosity drives me out there to go in the front and to actually meet people? Richard Holmes 11:26 Yeah, I think I think you build on that as well. And having that confidence, yeah. Grown operations. I just said its supply chain. And so when you reflect on your career is the one thing you'd wish you'd known at the start. Does it sound like you've had a fairly logical thought process in it in regards to your career want to do this in the financial controller? And what is the one thing you'd wish you'd known? Dilip Kherajani 11:47 Again, it's always about having a map. I wish I had a map because I discovered the map of the, say, 45 years. Yep. So five years early, if I had a road map would have been handy. But again, I think if people find out at an early stage, what do they want them? That makes life a lot more easy? Because then they know that's the goal. That's what they're focusing on? Yeah. Yeah. Richard Holmes 12:11 And, and we're not here to talk about international SOS. But with that, being able to take that risk of neither moving to PNG and then obviously to Singapore later on. Was that appetite for risk? If you always had that, Dilip Kherajani 12:23 and I just developed gradually over time. Yeah. Again, it is all about what's in the present, kept. Are you enjoying the present? Yep. So I think my dad used to say, you know, if you're gonna worry too much about the future you're gonna piss on the president Geron So, so it's all living in your present and enjoying your present. And if you do the right thing, in your present, you will, you're bound to have a successful future. So the opportunity of going overseas, meeting new people working in different cultures. That's what excited me and again, for the family. I took the family with me to Japan for nearly a month, we spent a month in the Philippines, you know, yeah. And it was brilliant, great experience. So great experience. And that is something you know, you can't so when you get it, don't say, you know, grab it, take it and there's no risk. You've got great people when people move you they look after you because you get treated nicely. And so I would say your risk is minimal. Yes. You know, there's always a risk of what if I come back and I don't find something? You got to believe in yourself. Richard Holmes 13:31 So believe in yourself. I think a lot of people forget what, then, obviously, your father was an influence outside your father is that he's, he's influenced you? Dilip Kherajani 13:41 Look, I guess I would say my last place it were the two people I had, I had happily say the names. I had James Gray. He was the CFO when I started them. And my immediate mentor, and a close friend, I have Donal. So I would look at both of them. And it was in me, I always have this thing every day I would walk in and like Okay, today I'm going to be 1% of what they are. Right, right. And it's because I would observe the way they would carry themselves the way they would deal with and the way they would treat people. Hmm. So that was the biggest learning for me. It was never about how do you do your work, but it's all about how do you treat people. And again, it comes back to the same thing on what you do. It's how you do it. So now I have two key those were the two key people who have played a big role in my career succession. And then of course, outside, do you have my own beliefs? So yeah, Richard Holmes 14:37 that's, that's great. Another thing having good, good mentors and people like that, in James in general increases your confidence, isn't it? It helps you believe in yourself. Absolutely. I can do this. Yes. And it's important in regards to mentors. I mean, you've worked with good people. Have you had mentors along the way or have those people you've worked with Dilip Kherajani 14:57 them. I was fortunate after dad passed away. I was 12 did go on the sidetrack for a few years away. But I did have a couple of good people who sort of, you know, took me under their wing, guided me and eventually showed me the right path. So had that early tip. And again, coming to Australia, again, when I came to Australia for the past five or six years, nobody knew about my family history, nobody knew about that. Nothing, I just kept it so private. But I was just glad that I was I had a couple of key people, again, very fortunate to have good people getting the right advice. And again, when you get the right advice, do you follow? Right? So it was all about if you believe in someone, and if they're telling you to do something, then you got to go do it. Richard Holmes 15:43 interesting how we can get influenced by people we admire. And I mean, you had those early hurdles in early life, but which hurdles apart from that view you personally face? And how'd you get over it? Dilip Kherajani 15:58 Look, again, in the early years, it was all about, you know, building confidence, I use, I used to have a lot more, I feel a lot more inferior. Right, right, and not feel confident, even from the outside have come across very social, early years, there was this hurdle, this personality hurdle that I would feel something's lacking. And again, later years at work, you will always you'll always get hurdles every now and then crush through the hurdles at work, I would say a lot easier to deal with. Again, you've got great people you work with, you know, if you have the right people you're working with those hurdles just become easy, but I think the biggest one was for me to overcome myself. And to change my own personality in the Richard Holmes 16:44 battles we have when we, when we're going through life and going through our careers, is with ourselves. We can do this or I can't do that. Right? This is a constant battle, isn't it? In reflecting on your career? I have? I mean, we learn from our mistakes. Have you had any big failures that you've you've thought on and learn from them? Dilip Kherajani 17:04 Not massive failures at work? Here free much, which is good. I think I think the biggest failure, I would say at work I had was I screamed at someone in an open office environment. Right. And that was not a pleasant game. No excuses for that. Yeah, of course, someone told me or when you were working 20 days straight, you were putting 20 hours a day. But again, that's not an excuse. So I still see that as a failure. Have you been screaming at someone in an open environment? And I would not want to do that. I think personally, yes, I've had, I think the failure that if I personally am losing out on a few I think mainly one relationship in the last decade. And it was all about you know, cut too busy with work too busy with everything, then you don't realize that hang on, actually, I've lost in a good personal relationship over here. So these, these are the two. For me. It's that personal relationship. It's that is the biggest failure that if I could go back and fix it, I'll definitely do that. Richard Holmes 18:06 Yeah. hindsight is a great thing. That was tough. I mean, I think these days were busier than ever and trying to maintain relationships. It's hard and seems to be getting harder. Dilip Kherajani 18:16 What about yourself? What's your biggest failure? I Richard Holmes 18:19 think for myself, it was probably maturity. When we're talking about careers, you do learn as you go, and whether through certain jobs or wishes and that, but I think I've always learned from them. I've had that self-awareness to learn from them. And I think that's the most important thing, isn't it? But yeah, I think relationships where I've, yeah, I'm trying to think of something good example can give, but where I can, yes, have made someone feel bad. And I've definitely learned as I got older, you've just got to treat people like you want to be treated yourself. And with your example as well. You obviously recognize our I should have done that. I've made that first-person feel bad. But as long as you can go back and rectify it, that's the main thing, probably worldwide. The only star that comes when it first joined, when it first came to Australia was working in this recruitment business. It's not, it's not a failure, because the person didn't actually know what I did. But we had a job called into the business. And I was a typical blog, and I can't multitask. And I put the phone down. And the job was called in from a colleague. And then my phone rang straight away, and it picked up the phone. And I forgot to pass on the message. And I was like, oh, anyway, like, I completely forgot about it. I was just busy doing something else. And a typical blog can do two things at once. And anyway, a couple of weeks later, this lady was working with, she just stood up a desk and she was fuming. And this was her best client and the user. And then it just like the light bulb went off was like, Oh my God, that's the job the calling for 100 and pass it on. I was just like, I was like, I just didn't say anything because it was too. I mean, it's gone, wasn't it? And I should actually call a woman and tell her but at the time I was like, ah, like, it didn't affect me personally. And like I mean, she got the relationship back so it wasn't too bad. But you learn from From then I was definitely getting a lot more organized. And I think when I was younger, you just a bit more disorganized. And these days where you get like that simple to-do list in each day and just the type of things that are hardest and why did we know that when we were in our early 20s kind of thing? It's quite basic stuff. But I think we kind of takes a look. Thanks for throwing, throwing that back on to me knowing you for a while I'll do it. Yeah, you're obviously passionate about what you do. How do you continue to learn to keep on top of your job? Dilip Kherajani 20:27 I think both eyes It's important to be updated. Right. So I'll be reading the newspaper every morning in AFR, during the Sydney Morning Herald just being updated. What are the changes the standards, have any laws being changed? Listening to the budget? You know, what's happening around? So I think it's all about keeping those in? And just observing what's happening around? Yeah, what can I do better to change, right? Because if you're gonna keep doing the same thing that you were doing 10 years back, then it's not gonna work. So I think change is the only constant. And it's all about adapting to change, Richard Holmes 20:59 and hasn't not the sheer chance that exactly, and it's good thing as we go through our careers while we continue to learn, don't we, I was chatting with someone, not on the podcast. And he said to me how excited he was in this guy's mid-40s. And he feels like he's just kind of starting again, right? And he's the CFO, this guy, and he just feels so excited about the next 20 years. And he was like, like, I think you go through these cycles in life where you are, you know, a lot now what, what next time? So with, with the current business in yourself, what's the biggest challenge you have moving forward in regards to your specific role right now? Dilip Kherajani 21:33 I think the biggest challenge we have is to stabilize and the growth that we have ahead of us. So you know, we are out there, I will be doing a lot of exciting stuff in the new year. We've had, we've had the most challenging, I'd say six to eight months. Yeah, the journey that we've gone through. But the challenge ahead is, it's all about giving that confidence to investors. Yep. Right. But people are put in a lot of cash in the business. They have faith in the exact team. But it's all about one is to Yes, you know, we need to grow. And it's all about how do you organically grow, right? We've got the market out there. We've got the relationships with the clients. It's all about the challenges now on us, you know, how do we get ourselves better and better every day? How do we take the organization to the next level with the support of our investors and up key people? How do you you know, it's a growth? It says how do we achieve growth, planning around that growth? That's my biggest challenge right now. being strategic being focused, you know, Avi, Avi spending enough time planning, you know, because the more on the more you plan, the easier it is to win a war. So have you got a planning right, you know, heavy and then it's all about execution? Because hard work is done when you plan correctly? Yep. So it's all about building those plans in the next two to three months. And then making sure we have the right people on board to execute it. Yep. So yeah, those are our biggest challenges. It's exciting, though. Yes, Richard Holmes 23:05 absolutely. 2021 is going to be a big year for you guys. Dilip Kherajani 23:08 100% Richard Holmes 23:09 You've seen a lot in your finance career, Dilip. What does the future of finance look like Dilip Kherajani 23:13 I think the future of finances will have, I think we will have accountants being more business partners. And sure, it's about understanding the different levels like today we are having a discussion, like, you know, we got to be can be thinking, in the old ways, by a financial account, and you need a financial accounting, you need a person. It's all about understanding what is transactional? And what is about transactional? Because to address the transactional need is absolutely important. And then what resources you deploy to address the transactional need of the business? And then once you have addressed the transactional need, how do you go layer up? And how do you do the commercials, the pricings, the reporting and all the analysis? How do you plug in that? So for us, what we are going through now is how do we ensure that the future of finance when we talk about, you know, how do we ensure that these people who are sitting on that second level? How are they partnering with the business? You know, are they working closely with every single department, your transactional work is always going to be there. I think even if we find robots will still lead someone to put a paper under them. So it's all about understanding what sort of levels are there in finance, how you change the world cultures, and then it's about again, coming back to the point of how can finance actually understand the story behind the numbers? Yep. You know, what effort are we putting in to going and understanding what happens at the front end? So I think that's the future of finance, whereby accountants will be more like business partners, and even to a certain degree, I would say the more like advisors to the business. Yeah. Richard Holmes 24:52 Yeah. storytellers. Yeah, that story. This is what's going on with our business. This where we should go. I spoke to a couple of guests in finance is evolving. Kind of the days of that content with the pens in the pockets? Yeah, I mean, they still exist on the but I think the image of finances changing Yes. Which is good. And I think with you mentioned with AI, I don't think it we're just going to get to that point where all the transactions is done, there's always going to be those kinds of rolls around to a certain extent. So again, reflects on your career, what's one thing when you look back that you'd never do again? Dilip Kherajani 25:23 That we'll never do again? I would say if I don't know, I would say I would listen more. Yeah. Okay. I wish I would have listened to a lot more thing. There's Richard Holmes 25:32 so much power in listening isn't as well as four to one guy. And he said You'll never get into trouble if you just listen. Yeah. That's good advice, isn't it? I would say that's a good question. And, and talking about culture, where you work in, from what I know about this business culture is fantastic. What does culture mean to you? Dilip Kherajani 25:50 I think I think culture is very important. In my last workplace, burning nearly 15 hours a day, seven days a week, working weekends travelling around and again, Nobody forced me it was, I absolutely loved it. 26:05 It makes a difference, isn't it? It's a choice. DK Dilip Kherajani 26:07 Yep. I, when when I hear people saying oh, I'm too busy. I'm doing you know, I'm working 20 hours a day, like, Wait, hang on, it's a choice. Because you can do a patchy job and get away with it. Or it's up to you to go and put in those extra efforts. And you know, do a great job. But where I want to see the culture is want to build a culture in my team is work should be a part of life and not life. You know, when people do come in, and those 10 hours with those eight or 10 hours that we're putting in? Are you prioritized? Do you know what you're doing? At the start of the day? What are your top five things that you're going to do? You know, have you got the resources lined up to do your top five things? Right? And are you focused and getting to an outcome? So I think that's the culture we are building over here, which is, you know, work hard, you know, do you eight or 10 hours, and after that, hopefully, don't even you don't even have to go back home and worry about it. Yeah. And the best example that I've had is, I've not had emails on my phone for more than a year now. And I've survived on for the last great last few years. I always had emails on my phone, you know, notifications going at odd hours. But now once I walk out after six or seven o'clock, I don't get in. I don't see an email every time I choose to log in at home. So I think I think that's the culture I want to set in this place. You know, come in who do Do you always Yeah. And again, enjoy what you're doing. Right. Have fun. Yeah. And yeah, when you're here, go and go and spend time with your family. It's not something Richard Holmes 27:41 that we all talk about work-life balance, but it's about being happy work, isn't it? Correct? It's kind of integrated is together. It's not working? in life. It's good. Well, that's great to hear about your emails. Oh, I think I think we'd all be better off when we let's say it's amazing how often we check our phones. And just Dilip Kherajani 27:58 and the best part is I haven't had one. overreaction, thumbs up, stop doing it. Because sometimes, again, you don't know what mood you're in. Suddenly you say an email coming in? Yeah. Might be nothing wrong with it. But you might still snap someone because you're pissed off about something else. Yeah. So always open your emails when you are in a reserved, you know, you never know what check your emails when you had a rough day, you know when you're tired, and you move on to responding correctly. Richard Holmes 28:28 That's true, isn't it? Yeah. And if you're in the if you're in that mindset, it's, you're gonna view that email negatively. That's it. Did it tell me I don't have to be a storyteller to see for a number of years ago, and you come back late January from his summer break. And he was telling me we were talking about emails, he said, I had 700 I deleted them all if it's important to get in touch with me. I was like, This guy was the CFO of a big company. I was like, wow, like, that's great. I was like, Wow, that's amazing. I'd love to be able to do that kind of thing. But it was important in the comic, so you don't always do that. Maybe not. But know when you're dealing you're a passionate, enthusiastic guy. What's your favourite thing about your career? Dilip Kherajani 29:05 I think about my career, it's all about understanding the story. The numbers, that's what I absolutely love about it. Coming every day, I want to you know, dig deep, curious as to what's happening if I'm favourable, why unfavourable? Why him? And if I'm balanced and won, why are we not growing? So it's all about that curiosity. That's what I love about it. Yeah, Richard Holmes 29:27 yeah. That's, that's, that's awesome. Then the time and knowing what you know, now, Dylan, what advice would you give to your younger self and this could be life on Korea? Dilip Kherajani 29:39 Yeah. I think life-wise, I would say if you are committing to a relationship, then you got to put all the effort to you know, manage it. Yeah. Right. Because it's it's how do I say the relationships are like strings. Once it breaks, it's very difficult to mend it and Even if you do, it will always be not somewhere. So stay committed to what you, you know, what you believe in him. And workwise is the same. I would say again, to my younger self, listen more, be more focused. And even again, it's not about working hard, but it's about you know, being focused, just do what you're doing again, doing 100% don't do it. 80% don't do it. 90% Do it, do it. 100% Richard Holmes 30:27 and you come across as a calm collected, chilled out, kind of character. What do you do when you do feel overwhelmed or under pressure? DK Dilip Kherajani 30:37 Just tend to walk away. Yep. Yeah, I think the I am stubborn. Right, right. I do. If I believe in to do something, I'll make sure you know, prove me wrong. But I think most of the times, I feel overwhelmed. The first thing is to have that awareness. Yep. that something's not right. And take a break and walk away. Right. So put my phone aside. Just go for a walk clear my head. Yep. And again, it's all about work when you're calm. When you feel calm. Yeah. If you're under pressure, if you're on a farm, you're not going to get the best result. Richard Holmes 31:15 Yeah. So you gotta be in the right headspace. Yeah, sometimes going for a walk around the block. That's what one does kind of touched on earlier. You may have a funny story in regards to to the accounting field. DK Dilip Kherajani 31:26 Do you want to tell us? I do actually have a couple? I'd say I was sitting down with a finance manager. And I asked him what I forecasted receipts looking like, right? And he told me, how can I tell you if I've not received the cash? And I think the other one that all the accountants we generally use, Why did the chicken cross the road? You tell me, because it did last year, too. So I think that's been the mentality a lot when people come in. Yeah. I go often around teams and ask them, why are you doing this? Because I don't know someone else was doing it. So I'm just continuing to do it. There Richard Holmes 32:03 was one story A few years ago, I heard where this CFO went in he is really huge on the people. So he sits down with each staff member, no matter how big his team is, for half an hour, just understand from transactional people all the way through. And he sat down with this lady who was I think she was she was a financial accountant, a fairly Junior accountant. He had this fairly extensive hand over the guy who was taken over was retiring. So I'd like to three more Pandora kind of knew everything. And anyway, she did this work. She spent a couple of days doing this in seven in this folder. He was like oh, what's his father's didn't is heard about this folder. And long story short, this lady been in the role for four years. He'd been doing this. They're doing this piece of work for two days, and seven in the fall the no one had ever opened. And he's just happening. Oh, my goodness. She's wasted all that time. And that's just nice. But hey, Dilip, I really appreciate you being on that on the podcast. And hopefully, we'll, we'll have you on the podcaster again soon. Fantastic. Thanks. Cheers. Thanks.