Episode 18, Tim Slater, GM Commercial, Hunter Valley Operations, Yancoal/Glencore JV

Transcript Please note that this has been transcribed by AI/Bots so there may be typos and the occasional strange things happening. Richard Holmes 0:00 Welcome to the numbers people podcast in partnership with HPR Consulting, a leading Sydney executive finance recruitment firm. I'm your host Richard Holmes. Richard Holmes 0:11 In this week's episode, we welcome Tim Slater. Tim is GM Commercial for Hunter Valley Operations, a joint venture between Yancoal and Glencore. With over 20 years of experience, Tim isCA qualified and commenced his career in chartered and he quickly rose through the ranks. He's worked for the likes of EY, Toll, and Rio Tinto to name a few. Richard Holmes 0:33 Tim, how are you? Good to see you again. Good, good, Richard. Excellent. I've known Tim for a number of years. Tim was a candidate of mine, probably about a decade ago now and since then, I've seen him rise through the ranks in his career. I think he's got a really interesting story and journey to tell you guys. Tim, would you like to tell us about your story so far? Sure. Yeah, as you said, interesting story, not not the typical bean-counting, Tim Slater 1:05 Sure. Yeah, as you said, interesting story, not not the typical bean-counting, career progression, but I guess, a higher more high-level overview of the CV we'll get into further detail within the podcast, but Tim Slater 1:16 I started or did a university degree at the Tim Slater 1:22 Australian Catholic uni or Sydney, natural the business majoring in accounting, worked in a small accounting firm for several years whilst completing that degree, and then packed a suitcase and took off to the UK. So did the working, working to the UK working visa for two years and did a bit of contract accounting with various organizations over in England, which was interesting, more travel than working to the honest but still a good experience. Tim Slater 1:52 And then when I came back from the UK jumped into the Graduate program with Ernst and Young Tim Slater 1:59 and risk through the ranks in instant young within the audit, division, and predominate looked after broadcasting television company. So Channel Nine, Sky racing Sky News, I became a bit of Tim Slater 2:13 TV auditor, I guess, a lot more interesting than checking out bank RECs within the Commonwealth Bank, I can assure you that Tim Slater 2:22 as luck would have it, that's the Division I was putting in which was great within Ernst & Young and after that stint, moved into my first commercial role in a company called Burns Philp, the old company is called Burns Philp that turned into the rank group which was owned and operated by Graham Heart, a New Zealand billionaire. So that was interesting, you know, management accounting, financial reporting role. But that wasn't satisfying the career needs. So I looked for another role outside of that. After about 12 months, outside of Ernst & Young and landed my first Commercial Manager job with a company called Toll remote logistics, which is now called Patrick Defense Logistics. That was an interesting role. Because commercial manager role there was a company that had logistics contracts all over the world. And not just it's not freight logistics. It's supporting the ADF, and the AFP in Solomon Islands, East Timor. And we also had a UN fuel distribution contract in all places of Chad, in deep dark Africa, right smack dab in the middle of North Africa, I suppose you'd call it. So you know, though, we would not work so tendering work, we would then win the contract. And then we'd have to commercially manage those contracts, predominantly with subcontractors for some of the major services we had to do. So that was an interesting role. Lots of international travel, frequent travel to downtown Honiara the capital of Solomon Islands, and into East Timor, daily, and then now several trips into Africa, as well, which was very interesting. Of course, that was all pre-family and kids so international travel was fine, but then children came along. So for another role outside of toll road logistics and jumped into Coffe International, and specifically, specifically in the soil testing business. And whilst I was there, we did a lot of the was the commercial manager for the source testing business. We did a lot of the bypass upgrades between Melbourne and Brisbane. So take some maintenance would principal contractor and then we would subcontract to doing all the concrete and soil identity testing for those major bypasses. So triple P projects, which was interesting. And then jumped out of that role into mining. And I went through the process and got the role. So I moved the family from Sydney up to Singleton call it three change, but certainly, a change. So, Commercial Manager for a mine in the Hunter Valley, which is owned by Rip Tinto called metaphor we work or the acronym is in TW. And at the time I was a joint venture with several international joint venture partners, including Mitsubishi and POSCO steel, still a Commercial Manager. And obviously, I hadn't been mining Tim Slater 5:39 prior to that role. So a very steep learning curve in terms of the mining process and knowledge. That was the key focus area. For me getting up getting more knowledge up to speed on how we run an operator mine with a commercial focus. It's been an interesting journey because ever since I've joined that mine, Rio Tinto was trying to sell the assets for many years. September 2017, was the Yancoal acquisition of copper. Now I adore Rio Tinto, Australia. So Yancoal took the ownership within Tw and HBO, which is a landmine, which I'm currently at now. And then, in my 2018, HunterValley operation or HBO, joint venture commenced in May 2018, between Glencore owning 49% of the mine, and Yancoal, owning 51% of the mine. So I'm the general manager of commercial or financial controller at that point on the other Yancoal employee on-site, the GM of operations is the only link or employee on-site and all the other 1300 people come on-site and employed by the joint venture very interesting role between Brinker and Yancoal. And obviously, it's all about safe production of the mind, but that joint ventures be in place into a team. And that's the current structure under which we operate in that opencast coal mine. So that's a high level Richard Holmes 7:18 before we've got to Tim Slater 7:20 so but if someone said, you're going to be in mining for 10 years refers me data Sydney in 2011, I would have laughed, come in at the time I thought, for the thought process was done in Rio, obviously, a huge national mining company, that opportunities would arise, but based on the divestment of the coal scene recently, between 2016 and 2017, they got a bit of a coal scene race and in New South Wales, and those opportunities within that company, the doors closed due to divestment. So it is what it is that they are having worked on for several years. Yeah, call and also heavily involved with Glencore, senior leaders as well. New South Wales. It's been a very interesting, last couple of years within that joint venture, which I'm employed at currently. Richard Holmes 8:21 And you touched on Tim, you've been in mining for nearly a decade now. And he would have thought you'd have been in mining that space, but you obviously enjoy the industry and what it's afforded you over the last few years. Tim Slater 8:35 I've been mining depending on which commodity you're in has different complexities. Fortunately, open-cut coal mining is fairly simple. Sometimes we tend to overcomplicate it that opencast coal mining is predominantly about dirt movement. So the more dirt you move, the more people you need, the more equipment you need, and the higher your cost base. That's not just about moving, it's also about the margin or the profitability of your mind, which is underpinned by your mind plan. But also, you're either blessed or you're not with coal quality, because not every more and not every coal mine I've been coal mine has same coal quality. So depends on the quality of coal you have and how much equipment and how many people you need to throw the solution. And that's not undermining the criticality of safety either. We're a large open cut coal mine for 1300 people, employees and contractors about a 60. Probably better 7030 split between employees and contractors currently, and safety's vital, how we operate that mind because there are so many interactions with the equipment and personnel that making sure people can to work safely and then go home safely is already number one. Richard Holmes 9:55 It's the number one priority. And that's the thing with the mining History is quite fascinated industry, isn't it? I mean terms of I could imagine as well Tim, how much that industry just alone has evolved in the last few years and in the direction it's going? Tim Slater 10:11 Yeah, definitely. I mean, productivities, and equipment and mining equipment getting bigger. And not many of you know, you can do Google and YouTube mining trucks and on shovels and draglines, but until you up close and personal and hop in a cab with trucking, driving 500-ton truck that's fully loaded, you know, they take an ultra-class truck has gross vehicle mass of 520 ton. And on the back of it, this random 20 ton of so you know, they're huge, huge machines, and significant dollars invested from a capital perspective to keep, I'd have morning equipment refreshed. Richard Holmes 10:59 It's amazing, isn't it? I had one of those tires that go on the trucks are about 100 grand apiece, just barely afford Tim Slater 11:05 one. So there's a meet there, Richard said, possibly at 40. Right. Richard Holmes 11:11 Okay. Tim Slater 11:11 So, then, but then again, every truck has six tires. So the front end for the back. So you know, you're driving around with in excess of $240,000 worth of rubber robot, every truck, in our mind currently has around 80 trucks operating at any given time. So it's big goals. Richard Holmes 11:35 The scale is it's amazing, isn't it? It's incredible. Tim Slater 11:38 The scale is huge. Richard Holmes 11:41 And in you know, in your career fairly well, Tim, what advice would you give to someone who wan to pursue a career like yours? I mean, you've wasted some interesting companies. What tips advice would you give? Tim Slater 11:52 I think I may not certainly say righty, and hence based on my personal experience, a lot of people probably overthink the importance of staying in a role for a period of time. There's a fine balance between staying for too long and jumping around. But my advice would be to variety in different roles and really find something that drives you as opposed to it's a job. And it's really, now you do you go to school, the diversity three, you do a professional qualification. But it's really putting that technical knowledge and experience into operational practice in whichever industry you choose to operate. Richard Holmes 12:37 That's good advice as well like looking at different roles and finding something that that drives you. I think working in finance, sometimes Ed, I do come across a lot of people who were stuck, and they just kind of pigeonholed in that in that particular position. But it's in when you reflect back in creating, I mean, is there is the kind of one thing you wish you'd known at the start of a career where you felt like why didn't someone tell me that? Tim Slater 13:04 Yeah, I think they need a leadership role now of some 100 giving me the advice of do not to defer or delay difficult conversations with underperforming team members. So, you know, human nature is fair and reasonable, and maybe not giving people enough time to before but it really that having those difficult conversations when you need to is the is a leadership challenge, because I've found the sooner you can address those performance issues with a Pacific individual or team members and agree, expectations going forward. It's not only potentially benefit the individual in question, but the bigger impact is on the wider team when you confront and deal with someone's not performing as expected expectations. Richard Holmes 13:57 Yeah, no, that's not that that's good advice and I think a lot of those conversations don't happen. And then it just spirals, doesn't it? It's interesting and working convention you work with some really interested in great people throughout the years he was influenced you the most Tim Slater 14:14 all the time. I mean, there's three that say the story or progression here advancement, there's been a lot of general managers put in place, specifically within the operational roles in my commercial manager roles with toll remote logistics and also coffee now into mining. You know, general managers of operations that are either technically brilliant and that's why they're in those roles, or they're just really solid leaders and I and I have had exposure to a broad range of introvert and extrovert and everyone brings something to the table and I know it's cliche but everyone is different and hippie leader have come across and continue to come across is different in how they approach things. But ultimately, we're all human. And people get a bit in a bit intimidated by people's structure within an organization, but ultimately, the senior leaders have got where they are based on experience and performance. And it's one of the things that I enjoy every day, getting exposure to, and interacting with the senior leaders. And also, Glencore because it's a, it's a learning that I take the good and the bad because you interact with leaders that and you, you know, you think to yourself that, I'm not going to behave like that when you see someone not behaving as you would, as you would like to see yourself. So I think, you know, and as a leader, myself, you need to be conscious that your team members are watching you, as I'm watching the senior leaders that I report to. So it's an interesting dynamic, and it's got to be the look in the mirror and make sure that you're expecting and behaving the same as my expectations of my leaders, as opposed to myself. So it's an interesting, dynamic, that for me, it's an ongoing journey of learning. Because, you know, just ticked over in the 40s. And I've still caught the needs to go in a career, you know, I'm always at the forefront of my mind is continuing to improve my leadership skills and ability and counting do that by observing how others before experienced that I do that. Richard Holmes 16:45 You touched on it, no, you're kind of fairly advanced in your career, but you've still got a long way to go, how do you continue to learn to stay on top of your role and keep on progressing? Tim Slater 16:56 For me, it's about enjoyment, role. So you know, if it's a chore to get out of bed and get your backside to work, you probably need to look in the mirror workout, with people current role. And the current role. While stopping in mind continues, it's evolved because of different ownership structures. When the ownership structure changed, it becomes a different approach to the operation within those companies. That you know, I guess it's the operating philosophy and how, yes, I've been quite mouldings over flatlining. But I've been fortunate enough to see how Rio Tinto coal operated the minds of seeing currently how Yancoal operates them on and also exposed to how clinical operates their mind. So across those three big mining houses, they all fundamentally do it the same, but they've all got their own little interesting quirks on it as I approach things. And the interesting one for me is about how they approach people in leadership. Because, you know, they're, as I touched on before the huge minds with a lot of people. And so if your people and your culture aren’t where it needs to be, you're going to suffer from a safety and productivity and performance level. So making sure that people are in line with what the company or what the site is trying to achieve is paramount. And that's an ongoing challenge. They never take your eye off improving the culture within your people. And that's regardless of company size, on easy to change in a smaller organization, but then that has a different dynamic to it as well. But when you've got a massive in excess of 100 people, then that's a big challenge. It's a lot of people that have been at these mind sites for in excess of 30 to 40 years as well. They've seen different managers and owners come and go. And for them, it's Groundhog Day, unless you can set the direction with where the new ownership wishes to take those minds going into the future. Richard Holmes 19:11 Let's say it's an interesting point you make there, Tim, in terms of culture, what does culture mean to you? Tim Slater 19:18 culture for me is all about people. And it's, it's, you know, taking the line out of the famous movie the castle, it's the vibe. So it's the look and feel of the place. So, one is you know, if you take the look of the place and applied to opencast mining, as a leader, I can walk around the mind site around the warehouse and maintenance facilities and are working for housekeeping. Keeping signs you know, so if someone's taking pride in their work and making sure it's neat and tidy Then it shows a bit of ownership and people actually care about the environment they're working with if you're walking into a facility that's not well maintained, and there's nu and bol and tools from one end of the tour shop to the other, then it tells you something that the people that are working in that space and how they're potentially impacting the equipment performance of the equipment. So if you can look after the housekeeping and the environment in which you're working, and there's probably a problem, and then it in the morning, one of the key things we look at is accident damage to equipment. So to the loading unit, so the draglines and the shovels and the excavators, as well as the truck flee, are the operators looking after the equipment? So that's a big one. But yeah, culture for me is about the people, but it's a different looking field of your particular organization or your mind site. Richard Holmes 21:00 It's interesting when you point Tim about ownership, culture is about taking that personal ownership to do your part, isn't it? Absolutely. And I think No, exactly. Yeah. And that can vary from company to company. And it's, as you're touching before the three big mining houses there culturally, they probably are different. 21:19 They are different. Richard Holmes 21:20 So it's interesting. And reflecting again, on your career, Tim, what hurdles Have you faced or, or mistakes you've made? And how, how have you learned from that's Tim Slater 21:34 all the biggest hurdle in recent history was the change into mining almost 10 years ago. And I guess every industry is full of jargon. But let me tell you, mining has got its own specific and acronyms that you've, you just got to get your head around. And luckily, I forget who but I was just lost. And someone gave me a bit of a morning acronym dictionary that I should refer to certainly in the first at least 12 to 18 months because acronym gone mad. And if you don't understand the jargon, it's hard to keep up with what was going on. But certainly, there was a huge knowledge gap there because I didn't understand the mourning process. But my approach was boo on the ground, get out of the office, down look and see with the operational leaders, a lot of senior mining engineers, production engineers, maintenance, and certainly within the plan, as well as the other support areas of health and safety, environment, community, and also HR. But as one of the people that I really relied on to get my knowledge up to speed with how those mines operated. But that was a huge hurdle. But over that hurdle, it took a good 12 to 18 months, but I relied on the senior leaders that already existed in the operation, build strong relationships with them. And then I wasn't afraid to ask dumb questions. Yes, there are a lot of dumb questions, because I certainly didn't know and I wasn't going to pretend that I knew and just have the poker face on because that wouldn't have benefited anyone. So I'd say that was the biggest, the biggest one, the biggest hurdle. Richard Holmes 23:25 You touched on you. You've touched on a couple of times, Tim, where you've, you've bigger relationships and getting out and meeting people in operations and productions. When you first joined the mining industry, was that something you took on yourself? Or was that part of an onboarding process? Tim Slater 23:42 Now was certainly it wasn't an onboarding structured process, it was certainly informal. Coming into that first mining job as a side commercial manager, very much forefront of my mom was being proactive about managing that because the onsite commercial team and been there for longer than I before I turned up on the doorstep. So the debit and credit and the commercial management will find are needed to come up to speed as a leader or senior leader on that site with more knowledge of the mining process advice I could apply commercial management and risk management based evaluations to the role and I couldn't do that until I got over the knowledge gap of how those mines operated. So Richard Holmes 24:30 It's interesting as well, your point there, Tim, that it took you 1218 months, not just a few weeks, couple of months, Tim Slater 24:40 it's all people normally give you the 90 days or three month grace period, but I'd bet undercooking the journey that I was on that. I think it's about you know, I didn't feel alone. As I said I had the support of senior leaders that were already on the mind site and formed a relationship. Because people. And Richard Holmes 25:06 so it's good to hear as well, Tim, that things do take time, don't they? Absolutely. I think when you kind of start off lucre, you've got to prove yourself, right here right now. And the reality is it just takes time, doesn't it? It's, it's interesting. So in terms of your current role right now, what, what area are you most curious about? Tim Slater 25:28 What certainly, mind planning, so I'm not in mind planning engineers. But my current role is the commercial management, financial controller mindset, which is obviously, revenue minus cos, risk capital, cash, is your net cash flow, simply. But the mines operate on the mine plan, and the amount of manpower and hours from a mind engineering point of view that goes into developing the mind plan which is done on an annual basis for the life of mine plan, which then underpins the annual process of your five-year plan. So every year, we undergo our five-year plan budget process. That is really it's a detailed review of the mine plan because the engineer's plan is what we need to do. And then what we need to do is what forms that cost base is, and so making sure that the mind plan is absolutely optimized is critical. And I guess in my unique role, I get two companies reviewing the mine plan because I've got Yancoal tendency, reviewing the mod plan, as well as ahead blank or ticking during the mine plan, you don't know, that's rare, you only have one company reviewing it. So my role is somewhat easier because I've got in terms of my process because I'm on, you know, in terms of that assessment of the mine plan, we've got two independent companies review before it's locked in. So I feel comfortable that the mind I'm currently the employee that has an optimized mine plan, certainly, we've got a growth profile going forward as well. So just steady as she goes, we're looking to move more dirt and produce more coal in the years to come. It's all subject to market conditions, and the current market conditions aren't in our favour. But that's the beauty of commodity mining, or being in commodities as the price goes up, and the price goes down. I know it's cliche, but we're in a cyclical market. And currently, I think we're debt where we've seen the bottom of the market in terms of the car price, and it's increasing the unfortunate thing is exchange rates going the other way, but what's in front of us? Richard Holmes 28:01 That's true, isn't it? It's an A and as you touch on 10, it's cyclical, isn't it? You got to understand that it's not always plain sailing, it's good. And then in, in looking at your experience in mining and other industries is something that, but that when you look back, you think God, why did you do that? I'll never do that again. Do you want to comment on that? Tim Slater 28:24 Yeah, I think it's, for me, it's around strategic alliances with big leaders and yeah, it's the old saying of, you do hit your car to a certain horse or horses. And, and that's, that's a cliche for those strategic alliances. And, but I think, you know, on reflection, we're all human. And we and we make mistakes, and we select at times the wrong horse, or choose the wrong stable if you're in the horse racing. But the importance is that what I've learned is that we need to adjust and realign alliances. So you know, the point I'm making is that when you have a really good relationship and report with a senior leader, and they change roles, or they leave the organization, someone new comes in, you need to be adaptable and flexible. Because it's a game-changer. You're still doing a role, but you've got a new leader, those strategic alliances in how you need to proactively communicate and reach out to that leader and build that relationship as quickly as you can. But as you and I touched on, it takes time. So it's not a week, it's not 14 days or 30 days, you need to let it develop. But the point is you need to proactively develop because quite often, those senior leaders won't help you develop that relationship. It's up to you to report to do that. And then the silver friction on that point is that how I do that with my existing team members as well. It's not just Being up to the org char, looking back the other way down the org chart and making sure I've got that alignment within my team. And it ultimately comes back to culture, which we touched on earlier, making sure the culture within your existing team is where it needs to be. And if it's not, then putting things in place to improve is a while improving itself and they should do something. Richard Holmes 30:23 Yeah, it's true, isn't it? And again, it talks about you touch them before taking ownership. But I really love your point about alliances like working in the recruitment industry, we're here that way you're aligned. And then your boss leaves and that's it. Relationships column and you're with that person in the new person comes in and any kind of out kind of thing. It's about awareness, isn't it? I think we learned that as well. It's a good point you make in terms of being aligned in building those relationships and knowing you, you obviously enjoy what you do you enjoy your job, mostly, most of the time. And what's your favourite thing about your career? Tim Slater 31:06 I've just had to say the diversity of it hasn't. The CV looks a bit jumpy, but certainly, in the last 10 years, there's stability. So I had to jump around a bit before I found and I guess the role that really interests me, or in terms of the title was the notion manager role, because yes, it's financial management and management, accounting. But depending on what industry, you're in, the commercial management really becomes risk management, commercial management, the debits and credits are there and that strategic plan that you're operating in. And always got advice, or you can be a commercial manager because you've never been a person manager before. But the point is, a leader at a point in time, saw what I understood. For that, I understood what I wanted to do, and they've taken an educated risk, or a gamble and said, Yes, we think Tim's heading in the right direction, although he's never been a commercial agent before. But let's give him a shot. So that was in 2008. But the people reluctantly think they can move into a role that they want to do because they've done it before. But really, the reality of how that works is a leader giving someone an opportunity to understand the passion of that individual where they want to take a career. Richard Holmes 32:26 Now, so that's a good point. And, again, you touched on just you perceive yourself to have jumped around a bit, I wouldn't have said that myself, Tim, but it's about finding your fate isn't out. I think a lot of people are too locked in, in a certain role and kind of get just yet again, pigeon holding that in that particular position is about an element of risk, isn't it? It's like liking yourself and giving it a go, like, like you did with mining. It's interesting, then time and if a firm if you go back in time, Tim wan to change one thing, what would that be? Tim Slater 33:08 change one thing? Richard Holmes 33:11 Like, is it something that you kind of like, or have done that differently? or? Tim Slater 33:16 Yeah, I think. Yeah, I think I'd touched on earlier in an earlier response, but I would say don't hang on to a job thinking it'll get better. So my advice is, the gut feels often right. Not always right. But more than often, right. And so my advice would be exit and move on. You know, type that stick trust the gap down so that we can be the brain better. But yeah, I think my advice would be don't hang on, I think it will get better if it's not ticking the boxes for you. It's unlikely to tick the boxes. So make the bold step and move on finding something that really drives that's Richard Holmes 33:57 I reckon that's great advice as well. And yeah, I mean, it's interesting they the colon is one about the gut feeling I mean, gut feeling is very rarely wrong. I mean, I don't know if there's any science to that but it's strange It's a strange thing that is vague or feeling right sometimes it just feels right and sometimes it doesn't and when it doesn't feel right if you've got to make the move, don't you? Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting and you've seen a lot in finance in your career so far and it's evolved a lot even in the last few years. What does the future of finance look like to yourself? Tim Slater 34:31 Look, I think Yeah, the future finances is bright was very bright. every industry in business requires emotional and financial management doesn't matter the size of the firm. You know, double-entry bookkeeping, debits and credits are fundamental to any operation or organization. And, you know, I've seen within companies I've worked for recently stree, you can ask Source transactional processing work like accounts payable, accounts receivable, payroll, etc. Certainly, Rio did that on a global level that 2013 2014 because all their minds, they outsource that transactional word into India across all the commodity groups, including iron ore, coal, copper, etc. But the point is, you can't get rid of that day to day management. You can outsource the transactional work, there's always going to be a need for accountants, measure managers, financial controls, etc. And you see, well, I certainly see maybe I'm just reading the press because it's what I'm interested in. But I'm sure that the importance and the status of CFOs of recent have been elevated in recent years. And you know, when you look at the impact of the recent impact of COVID, it's always CFOs commenting on how their companies are going to manage through process, yes, and together with the CEO, but the importance of the CFO and financial teams, under which the CFO is the leader of our extremely important, regardless of company size and structure. So my view is together with the senior leaders, the operational leaders, and then support leaders in those companies that the financial structure requirement for finance professionals, it's going to be here for the foreseeable future. And I Richard Holmes 36:42 completely, completely agree with the two minutes. It's interesting the trend over the last few years, how many CFOs have gone into the CEO, position. So I used to be most CEOs come from sales backgrounds, it just stresses the importance of what CFOs are doing these days. And, and in the breadth of finance, I remember when I first got here in 2006, and in finance was very much that back-office function. And now it's really important if everyone's chatting, chatting to finance. It's good. And then no new team, you're a pretty calm kind of collected, relaxed, kind feel stressed and pressured. And if you do, if you're feeling overwhelmed, how do you cope with it, Tim Slater 37:28 I think with the benefit of hindsight, but not to react in the heat of the moment, Tim Slater 37:38 acknowledging the identified side reflect, reflect if you do fly off the handle as a learning experience, and as an individual look in the mirror, and ensure you learn from them because we're not perfect. And sometimes we react in a way that we third we hadn't put in the heat of the moment, if you're able to take time out to reassess reprioritize seek approval to delay a task that might not be as urgent as you think is often your people talk about work-life balance. I recently got some mentoring advice, the work-life balance is it's a myth. And all we do as professionals with our professional work, as well as our home life, was, which is equally if not more important. We're just juggling reprioritization of tasks, whether it's the work or the family, and we subconsciously elevate or demote prioritization of tasks within someone's get one day on the phone, or you go on through an email, which people often do you then reprioritize and then other things happen. And then people's emotions can get in the way of doing a good job. But as I said, in the, in the heat of battle, when when, when things are happening, if you are able to make a bit of time out, take a deep breath, walk down the corridor, at the mental side, I just take a stroll into the car park just to clear their head and reassess before responding to a particular situation. But as I said, quite often, it's the benefit of hindsight. But if you do have an experience where you feel overwhelmed, it's making sure that you as a leader, reflect on that and learn from it. Because as I said, we're not far from perfect, you might say, in the heat of the moment that we wish we hadn't been there how you react to that situation after. Richard Holmes 39:39 Yeah, it's interesting about taking that step back as well. Because I mean, hindsight is a great thing, isn't it? I think we've all done things we, maybe we can look back on Well, we should have done that differently. But Todd, admit it. And in bringing that up in conversation. It's, it's I think that's a thing we do as we progress in our career where we're a bit more confident to have those conversations. And in your point as well about work-life balance. I mean, it's an interesting topic, but it goes back to your earlier point in where you've got to be happy in what you do. I mean, that's a balance. If you're happy at work, you obviously bring that home and vice versa. It's really mean in like, meaning, work-life balance, is there a blueprint for that? I don't think there is, it's about finding that role you enjoy. And you can actually manage it. Well, Tim Slater 40:23 I think you make a good point about if you enjoy your job, and you take that home, I think it's important that you're not always going to walk in the door happy because simple things happen at work and you get unhappy. But the point is, leave that in the car, leave it in the driveway, don't take that emotion into your family life. Because those experiences don’t go well. I certainly like that myself. And I wish I hadn't. But it's hard not to take the emotion out of how you're feeling and drive home and then put the poker face on and high five, everyone when you walk in sometimes that negative emotions spill over into the family environment, which is not great, but it happens. I think we just need to acknowledge that that's reality. It's normal. But yeah, yeah, Richard Holmes 41:14 no, it's literally family. It could be a couple of times during this conversation what what what makes you happy at work and in your home life Tim Slater 41:23 are suddenly I've got three kids and they're all getting the oldest just started high school this year. So they're getting to the age where they run, achieving things that they probably under, underestimate their own ability, so to see them, you know, surprising themselves, whether it's on the sporting field or in the classroom, they seem to be constantly surprising themselves with their results in a positive way. So I get a that's a huge key for me. So yeah, that's what keeps me happy. Richard Holmes 41:57 It's seeing the kids progressing in things. It's a proud moment for any parent, isn't it? But hey, Tim, I think I think you've been a great guest and delivered a lot of insight and really good advice, and it's good to see you progress your career and you give us some insight in regards to the mining world as well. And it's going to be interesting, what happens in that field over the next few years. And, look, I really appreciate your time, and hopefully, we'll catch up again soon.