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Episode 12, Anne Terry, Commercial Director, CFO, CSO, COO and Non Executive Director

  • Posted 28 Mar 2021
  • Richard Holmes
  • Podcast

Anne Terry is a passionate and energetic leader, with over 18 years experience in strategy, commercial management, business transformation, financial management, performance improvement, process re-engineering, risk management and project delivery in within TOP 100 ASX. 

She has worked for multi-national and government enterprises in the infrastructure, utilities, construction, building, transport (road, rail and metro) & real estate sectors.

Anne has delivered sustainable positive results through transformation & optimisation, enhancing bottom-line outcomes and successfully held senior Finance Director / Chief Financial Officer Roles for businesses with a total project value of > $3.5bn.

Transcript Please note that this has been transcribed by AI/Bots so there may be typos and the occasional strange things happening. Richard Holmes 0:02 Welcome to the numbers people podcast in partnership with HPR consulting a leading Sydney executive finance recruitment firm. I'm your host, Richard Holmes. In Episode 12, we welcome Anne Terry on is a passionate and energetic leader with over 18 years experience in strategy, commercial management, business transformation, financial management, performance improvement, process reengineering, risk management, and project delivery within ASX top 100 listed companies. She's worked for multinationals and government enterprises in the infrastructure, utilities, construction, building, transport, and real estate sectors, and has delivered sustainable positive results through transformation and optimization, enhancing bottom-line outcomes, and successfully held senior finance director and CFO roles for businesses with a total project value of over three and a half billion. And how are you? Good to see you again? Anne Terry 1:02 Great to see you too, Richard, Anne Terry 1:02 and thank you for the opportunity to chat to you on this podcast. No, it's Richard Holmes 1:06 it's a pleasure and knowing what I know about you, and you've had a fantastic career, you've worked in finance and operations, I think you're gonna be a great guest on the show. I'm pretty positive, you're gonna offer lots of insight. So to kick off on, could you tell us all about your story? Anne Terry 1:22 Sure. So I started my career as a cadet, we Bankers Trust that was subsequently acquired by Deutsche. And three years as a cadet in finance created a really interesting base for me to catapult my career into other areas. So finance then took me to accounting, where I worked for PwC. And then we might interest in infrastructure, and the involvement in infrastructure from starting at Bankers Trust, I leveraged my career into a legal role, which I did for a number of years. But whilst I was doing that, I was very itchy for the numbers and wanting more than just a role that involves drafting contracts and really wanted to get into the negotiation, the structuring of the transactions, and just being more involved in business as a whole. So stepped back out into what was the commercial role, but encompassed a very big finance component to it. Because really, where my career took me was a lot of PPP private public partnership pathway in infrastructure, where I've sort of been focused for the last 23 years. Anne Terry 2:41 And that's really opened a lot of doors for me to work with a lot of different clients, a lot of different asset owners and a lot of different parties across the market. Everyone from New South Wales Government, through to Macquarie Bank most recently. So I think I've actually been really lucky. I think my background has really provided a strong foundation for me to really be able to add value to businesses in different ways. And one of the really special things that I've really done in my career that was unexpected. But something that was there when I completed an MBA in the early 2000s, was to take a general management role, looking after a fairly significant property portfolio, and actually one of the largest in the southern hemisphere. And what that did was even though it had a very big p&l focus and a very big focus on actually crystallizing the value of that asset portfolio, it really just opened the world of operations and how business operates. And in particular, put me on a pathway to delivering quite substantial transformation projects as well. So a lot of those transformation projects have been in the areas of commercial and finance, a lot in governance as well, and in particular, setting up governance structures for organizations that have been taken over or merged in that m&a space. As well as more recently, I'm actually setting up a major finance function for an asset investment vehicle in Asia, which is what I've just finished doing. So I've really ducked and weaved throughout. I've done everything from building and developing major claim strategy on infrastructure projects, such as the Victorian DSL, which lost a significant amount of money in delivery, and structuring the strategy that would ultimately get us to deal with debt equity and the Victorian Government and try and recover the project and get it back into public point where it could move into completion and operations. And I've also held roles, like a commercial like the commercial director and development director. On the metro Martin place project here in Sydney, that was from a quarry. But the way that came about was I was actually government's advisor on the unsolicited proposal transaction to government. So as you can see, I've sort of put together my commercial skills as a construction lawyer, I've put together my finance skills that I've developed over time, from an investment banking background, at the start of my career, and more recently, and also as a CA. And for me, I think completing the CA has been one of the most crucial parts of my career development. I'm always really keen to say to the the juniors coming through that I mentor, focus on getting that CA, it's really important, it takes you overseas, you can work for the internationals, you can work locally, and it's really a transportable skill set that's highly valued in the industry. And I think that's the theme that really makes me saleable as a senior executive, the market, and something that I think, really provides a strong foundation for a great career. And I've still obviously got a couple of years left in the market. So I hope that I can really add some tremendous value to some businesses that are either major asset owners in the market, or those delivering assets or developing assets. So that's a quick overview of my career, Richard, Richard Holmes 6:28 it's, it's a great story and just listening to you there. And I mean, you've you started in, in finance, you went to PwC, in your head, that career change, and you went into law and then realize what this isn't for me. I'm getting out of this. And how much have you been? You mentioned before you kind of ducting weaved your way through as you progressed? How are you in control of that we are conscious of it or was it we just find opportunities as you went by? Anne Terry 6:54 I think part of it I was really conscious of. So after a couple of years, as a cadet in investment banking, I was really conscious that I needed to go in, get that ca qualification and work in an environment where I could build those basic financial skills that would be valued by most major organizations, I was really fortunate in that I was able to work in infrastructure, which is something I really wanted to do, I actually really wanted to be an engineer. And that's another story. And I probably could have done it. But for whatever reason I chose not to. So I've sort of been able to luckily work in the sector that I'm quite passionate about. So from doing that ca i really managed my career through to then work in those infrastructure organizations, and then try to get experience across the entire asset lifecycle from project development through to project closeout. And that's been a really integral part, I think you're really building my career and my CV. A lot of people don't like working for government. But for me, I think government was pivotal New South Wales Government, I worked for transport across the transport portfolio. I think that was pivotal for my career as well. Because what it did was it opened my breadth of experience, it provided me access to transactions and scale that I wouldn't have gotten elsewhere in the market, as well as provided me with opportunities to work on massively complex transactions and projects with policy and strategy that you just don't get to work on in the private sector. So from there, I sort of navigated through and returned to the private sector very deliberately, to work in the contracting space, by choice. And from there sort of took my career. I guess a really unexpected part for me was probably my move to KPMG, where I was a partner in the infrastructure and real estate team. I made that move after quite some time over 10 years working with CPP or the CME Group, Elise, as the head of commercial for the building division. Because I found that the after that level of longevity in the sector, it became a little bit narrowing in terms of market relationships and scope. And that's where I stepped out to actually broaden my career out. I think I'm going to McQuarrie was almost an accident and flowed on from the fact that I had worked on the government side of the transaction, which McQuarrie had actually submitted to the South Wales government as a USP, an unsolicited proposal. Richard Holmes 9:46 Okay, that's, it's interesting I was laughing to this afternoon when you mentioned you were thinking about being an engineer. Tick that box off as well. Maybe Anne Terry 9:56 one day Yeah, I still got time. Richard Holmes 9:59 Exactly. Yeah. We've all time have we, it's good. And then you touch on a couple of bits of advice then. But you mentioned or focusing on getting your ca at the start your career, which is, which is great advice? And what sort of looking when someone looks at yourself in your career and what advice would you give to someone looking to pursue a career like yours? Anne Terry 10:19 So the biggest piece of advice I would give somebody is, don't get pigeonholed. I think there's a real risk of that happening for a lot of people that work in an industry, or in a particular finance sort of related field, in an industry. So one of the things I think, for me, that's been quite difficult is to sell myself, even though I've got a really broad skill set. And I have a massive, a massive amount of offer, because I've got the legal, the governance, the risk, the strategy and the finance, as well as operations, I find that I'm somewhat limited by sector Now, given the 20 odd years that I've spent in that sector, so what I would say to aspiring CPAs is get out and experience the world work for different companies and work across some different sectors. I had an amazing experience in 2014, up to 2014, sorry, working for Suez group. So as is an international organization listed on the Paris Stock Exchange. And working with the breath of a business internationally was something that I didn't realize I needed in my career until I got the opportunity to work with professionals globally, which really changes the depth of your experience, the way that you need to communicate the way you transact on particular issues, because people globally come at things quite differently. So that is the key thing that I would say to anyone who's looking at how to build their career. And one other point, which I think is really important, and I've been talking a lot about this recently to my mentees is, own and manage your network, your network is really critical. And there is nothing better than having a strong network and investing in that network. Because that is ultimately the thing that will get you through your career. Richard Holmes 12:18 That's a that's really good advice on it's interesting. We think the word networking is quite flippant with a lot of people, but you mentioned and you've got to manage your network. I think this has actually been good for everyone to make those calls. I've seen that increase in the self in our sector. But yeah, it's good advice as well. Like, just don't be pigeonholed and you touched on before that you've been in that similar industry majority career. And he was talking before about working with the government as well. And that that kind of strategic move to the government. It's interesting, working in the recruitment industry, where sometimes the perception of that is that all they want it easy. And I think well, that's ridiculous, isn't it to a certain extent, completely depends on on the opportunity going into. But it's, it's good advice as well on saying you've got to kind of get out and go across different sectors. And I think it's interesting as well with industry because when we recruit some people are really industry-specific. But really having a chat with people like yourself, you can do so much more than just one industry. Anne Terry 13:22 And that's one of the things that I always try and communicate is that even though I've worked in infrastructure for a long time, most recently, I did a project in, in Asia. I haven't worked in Asia before I worked. As I mentioned, I work for Suez environment, very European, very, very focused in South America and the Americas as well. So performing a CFO role in Asia, where English is not the first language was a really interesting dynamic. Running a massive transformation exercise, including bringing in a new system, managing new shareholders by two tranches of sell-down of shareholdings in an asset was a really interesting thing to have to do. From a career perspective, but was a massive development opportunity for myself. I think one of the things for me has been that you can take the simple path and picking up on your point, which is about government, I think government, the roles I held in government were some of the most difficult roles I've had. And some of the roles I've worked the hardest in so I think there's sort of a misnomer around what it means working for government because not only does it expose you to some of the more complicated sort of issues that an organization can face, but it actually challenges you quite substantially intellectually as well. Richard Holmes 14:54 Yeah, that's good. That's it's good to hear the experience you have them was was interesting and see you as a person. Again, it's like, so is the one thing when you reflect on your career? Is there one thing that you wish you had known at the start of the career? And when you look back, you think, oh, why didn't he get that bit of advice or recommendation? Anne Terry 15:17 Yeah, I think the biggest takeaway for me, and I was really fortunate to have great mentors along the way. Probably at the outset, you don't understand how important your network is. So that's something I think I learned quite early. And I've worked, as I mentioned earlier, I've worked quite hard to sort of build that network. The thing I pride myself in, and I try and sort of reinforce the ACS, I try and be true to myself. And I think that's really important, particularly as you sort of progress through the levels. And the jobs become more and more complicated, more and more political. And they require a lot more strategy and sort of change management, you do really need to be who you truly are, you know, that authentic authenticity point, is often sort of something that's discussed and thrown about in an organization, but how many people actually have the guts to truly be themselves. And I, I pride myself on that, because I think it is really important. And when you're working in environments, where the going gets really tough. That's the thing I think that rings true is you can keep going, you can be resilient, and you can deliver on the outcomes to the best of your ability, if you go back to those things that are, you know, at your core. And someone recently said to me, at the at the end of the worst of COVID, for us, I was working here in Sydney, on a project in Asia, delivering that quite substantial transformation. And someone said to me, You know, I've looked across our business, and you seem to be the most resilient person here. You know, when all this happened, you, you know, return back to Australia, but you just got on with it. And I think I've built that resilience over time. And that's probably the other lesson and take away that someone didn't really help me along the way with I found that myself. But it was through a couple of hard knocks, and a couple of, you know, falls as we all have throughout our career that you realize, you've got to build that resilience, and you've got to pick yourself up and keep going when things don't go the way you want them to. And that's part of that career sort of management piece that you spoke about earlier, too. Richard Holmes 17:35 Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned then, through your career, you've had great mentors, was that through that your own self-awareness to get a mentor, if you're lucky, just always have been through their career. Anne Terry 17:50 Um, I've sought them out personally. So at different points in my career, I've had different mentors. And they've ranged from people that are from the legal fraternity. They've ranged from senior execs in the market, and others that are not people that have got the same skill set as me. So for example, one mentor was a quite a senior Rainmaker for major IT organization. So not someone you'd sort of expect as a mentor for someone with my background, but I found their counsel tremendously valuable. And I continue to refresh those mentors. I think most people are a little bit, I guess, hesitant to ask someone to be their mentor. But I think if you find the right person, and you have that personal connection with them, most people won't turn you down if you if you make a request. Richard Holmes 18:45 That's good. What advice would you give to people earlier on in the career about reaching out to a mentor, Anne Terry 18:52 my advice is to reach out to everybody that you think will give you value, don't hold back. Some people will deliver you tremendous value, others will give you one little kernel that might, you know, put you on the right path. But it's important to keep engaging with people. So don't sit back on your hands get out there. You don't have to be super outgoing. You don't have to be, you know, the light of the party, that it's not about that. It's actually about building those strong relationships, creating connection with people. Richard Holmes 19:25 That's great advice on I mean, just go out and do it reach out to people. Let's touch on most people are a good-natured want to help people and if you get approached by someone younger, even out your field, you're probably going to say yes to have a conversation with them. It's good in talking about mentors throughout your career in your life who was influenced you the most. Anne Terry 19:47 I won't personally I won't name them. But one particular person who is quite a senior executive, in a very big organization, in the financial sector, has been a really big driver for me. He's been there when, you know, things haven't been great in my career where I feel a little bit lost. And I have had those points in time. But he's always reminded me that no matter how bad things get, they're actually not that bad, and just look really objectively, at what you're doing. I have to say that during COVID, I've had a really great coach. And he's someone that I've highly valued. He's really given me some strong strategies for the future. And I think he's really positioned me for where I'm going for my next sort of path and journey in my career. One of the things I think, and his name is Jeff Chen. So look him up. He, he, he's been motivational, but he's also been inspirational. And what he's really shown me is that it doesn't matter what you do, it's actually how you do it, and take the energy with you. show people how passionate you are, and show them the energy that you have for what you're doing. And the roadway in front of you will just open up and the opportunities will be there. And I think that's one of the really big important lessons. And I've learned that quite late in life, I think. It's not something that I was really conscious of before. But I think the thing that people take away from every interaction with you is actually how they feel. And if they feel great, and they know who you are, and you're being authentic, they'll remember that, and they'll always be happy to connect with you in the future. Richard Holmes 21:42 That's great. It's, it's, it's good to hear as well. And you mentioned where you couple of a couple of guys have influenced you at the level of your career. But you're still reaching out and getting so much valuable insight from people where people might perceive at your level, and you know, everything. But it's always good to reach out because you don't do. And it's Anne Terry 22:03 everything. And that's something that I think we have to realize, as we go through our career, one of the things I've always done, I think culture is really important, actually. And that's something that has been a big part in where my career has gone. Because choosing people that are aligned to you, culturally, and from a values perspective is really important. But I think also having that ability to learn as you go along. We learn a lot from everybody that we interact with on a daily basis. And I go out of my way to reflect daily and think about the interactions that I've had with people things that I've done, and how I could have done them better. And I think that really accelerates your own personal development. But it also makes you more aware of what's going on around you and makes you more resilient, as well. And, you know, 2020 has been a really great example of how we really have to change the way that we work, how the way we have to modify our leadership skills and our approaches. And I sort of think of myself as a new generation leader. And I hope that I get the opportunity in the, you know, in the near future, or the distant future, to really lead an organization to a different place. And that's something that I'm really aware of, I value cultures that are collaborative, and that encourage problem solving, that encourage asking questions. Because if you're in a culture like that, you can discover so much about the opportunities in the market, both for the business for each of the individuals that you're working within the team and also for yourself. Richard Holmes 23:55 That's true, isn't it? And in talking about culture, you touched on those people who will align to, and it's interesting how companies get culture role, really is about transparency, its authenticity, collaboration. And if you made a good point, it's all about asking, asking questions, and having that environment where you can feel comfortable to voice your opinion. Anne Terry 24:21 And I think COVID has shown us that culture is really important. If you have a look around, you know, I even look at my peer group and some of their experiences during COVID. I think there are people that have done really well and have gotten on with life, their roles, tried to sort of reposition the companies that they're leading or working with. And there are others that have been in environments that haven't been as positive and those have really been impacted by that. So for me, the importance of culture has really been elevated dramatically in the last 12 months. Richard Holmes 25:00 It's interesting how companies are going to keep that culture going in the next year, and you touched on before on. I mean, through your career, you've had some, some challenging times as well. When you reflect back, did you make any mistakes or failures? And what did you learn? Learn from them? Anne Terry 25:22 Look, I think I've had a few aspects of my career where I probably not made the right decision or gone to an organization that I probably wasn't well suited for in terms of the culture or just the general vibe of the organization. So, you know, from that perspective, I would say, really assess the organizations that you're working with before making a decision. Sometimes we're sort of forced into a path where you've got an organization that you're working with, and it might merge or change, and you sort of, sort of go with the flow. But really stand back and ask yourself the question of, you know, what is the value proposition that I bring to that organization? And what's the value proposition that that organization brings to me, because I think they're really important questions at that point, where you are questioning whether you're in the right place in your career. But more recently, I had an example where, in the CFO role, I was actually asked to manage a team in a very particular way. The culture of the team was not overly positive. And I was asked to take an approach where it wasn't the best approach that could have been taken to get the outcome. It affected me and my performance. But it also affected the outcomes that the team got. And reflecting on it, I didn't speak up enough in that context. And I asked myself now why that was the case. And I think part of it was about not feeling confident, or fearful, perhaps about circumstances that I was in different country COVID not feeling secure, sort of in the role where I was doing, and you know, the position that I was in, and important learning for me out of that has been actually asked the questions, clarify the position, and be clear about what you think you need to do and how to get the best outcome. If they don't like it, again, think about whether you're in the right organization, and try and find a way of working that you think would work better. Because ultimately, when you're in the thick of it, and you have to do something that doesn't sit well with you, it really is a difficult circumstance for you to manage personally and professionally. Richard Holmes 27:52 Yeah, that's a couple of really interesting points you made there as well. And when in, in the recruitment industry, we speak to candidates in the deeply don't enjoy where they work, and have this battle in the head. And you have to have your ethics and integrity. And if your company question or questioning your own ethics, you've got to move, don't you? Anne Terry 28:13 Absolutely. And I've had that very thing happen to me a couple of points in my career. And I have to say, for me, ethics and integrity are key. And sometimes you just have to make the decision that it's not the right organization for you, and step out and find something different. And people wobble when things like that happened to them in their career. But you know, ultimately, look at the opportunity. And in the circumstance, the opportunity is actually to open your eyes to what's in front of you, and what else is available out there. Rather than being in a box or sort of locked down by the circumstances that you find yourself in. And being unhappy is the worst thing that you can do. Because life's too short. Richard Holmes 29:02 Life is indeed too short, isn't it? It's and as a reflection on before I do meet a lot of unhappy people, and I just want to sometimes give them a hug. Life is better than this. You can change your own destiny and direction. It's, it's interesting, and it's with us as you've gone through your career, and even to the present day, how do you continue to keep on top of things and continue to learn. Anne Terry 29:26 So I think for me, learning comes through a number of different vehicles. I've done a lot of further study throughout my career. So I didn't just stop at my base degrees, I went and got a master's in law, I got a Ma, a Masters of Business and MBA. I've continued to do further development through the leading business schools, such as NC add a lot of short courses, but that's only a really small part of it. I think you learn a lot in the environment that you're in. You learn a lot from the team members. Everyone comes To a job with different experiences, so learn from them. Most people are really happy to share. So, you know, when you go to a meeting to look for an issue, don't just go to the solution, sit there with an open mind and go on a journey to explore what people bring to the table. Because you'll be surprised by what you learned. Richard Holmes 30:19 I 100% agree with you. And you can learn from people who are far, far less senior than you as well because it just Anne Terry 30:29 doesn't matter what level they're at. Everyone has done something very different. Richard Holmes 30:32 Yeah, and it's true. And it goes back to your point about culture as well like having that culture of being able to ask questions. And it's amazing when you reflect through your career when someone brings something up, and you've not even thought about it. And it's an amazing idea. And then you go on and implement it. It's Anne Terry 30:47 another thing for me, you know, as a senior leader, managing big teams over time, a lot of people are scared of having people that are smarter than them in the team. Actually welcome it. I think it's amazing. My recent experience in Asia, I haven't worked in the Asian market before. And we're very specific, regulatory environments, you need the experts to help you navigate what the legal position is, what the financial position is, what the government regulatory position is, and there's nothing wrong in sitting back and asking people that are working in your team, they're far more junior than yourself, the way forward because some people know far better than what you know, and they can actually contribute. I think it's also a really important way of creating, buying from a team creating that vibe and motivation, but also allowing people to truly demonstrate their value and showing how much that value is actually appreciated in the team. Richard Holmes 31:52 Yeah, no, it's really interesting points around about just, again, that self-awareness, I don't know everything I need help. And asking for help when it's, in your point about leadership as well. I remember I took a brief a few years ago for a CFO, in the first thing, this guy said to me, and it's textbook leadership if you got a book off in a library about leadership, and he said, the first thing he said was, I want someone who's better than me. And I was just like, I've not heard you hardly very rarely hear someone say like that. I mean, that means you're comfortable in your role. You want to surround yourself and it was just great to hear it. Unfortunately, it was a few years ago, not particularly brief when he said that, but it's, it's good as well, it just that's true leadership, isn't it? Anne Terry 32:34 Yeah. And the power of you know, the many is better than the power of the one. So I absolutely endorse that view, and always sort of look to those that can help you. And I think working in that concept development space, as well, throughout my career, where you're developing projects and coming up with new ideas. Often, it's the juniors, that only have two or three years experience, they have an amazing idea. They may not know how to execute on it, because they haven't had the full breadth of experience or expertise. But they bring so much to the table and help you sort of navigate it because they have something formed in their mind that they think can work. You need to liberate to that because that’s what innovation is about. It's what creating new business and new ideas about so yes, it's true, isn't it? And I think Richard Holmes 33:28 your point about innovation, it's everyone's thoughts these days, isn't it about how can we innovate and change and reflecting your career? I mean, you've obviously seen a lot with it. When we talk about the future of finance, how do you see it evolving over the next decade? I mean, we've seen a lot just this last decade. Anne Terry 33:49 I think they're the finance roles and the finance industry is going to evolve substantially in the next five years, let alone 10 years. I think where the roles are going is more depth in expertise is being sought generally. But also I think it's a broader skillset. So they just market is not just looking for someone who can do your ASX reporting. The market is looking for someone that's got that commercial outlook, someone that might be able to look at the strategy, someone that might look at opportunities for m&a or depending upon obviously the organization but it is a broader skillset. So that is why I think learning and development of of your own skills is really important. finding people that have got those complementary skills to you when you build your team because no one person can have all the skills that you need, given the nature of the finance roles that most of us will have over time and we need to prepare ourselves. To be more open to working differently, more open to accepting a broader remit our finance roles, so often you will say, Richard, in the finance roles, we do everything. And I've always done a lot of governance-related stuff as well, you might do a lot of what most people would categorize Corporate Services. You know, I've seen one recently that has legal procurement, finance it all bundled together. So there is a shift in wanting that CFO or that senior finance professional to take on more and more, and a really active member of the executive team. And I think that that's actually really healthy. Both career perspective, but also from a personal perspective. Richard Holmes 35:47 That is true, isn't it? I think the role of finance, it's, it's ever-evolving, isn't it? And even the term I was chatting with someone the other day, finance, business partnering that didn't even exist in 2010, it certainly came around maybe seven or eight years ago. So I think it's it's one of those and you touched on before when I think we talked about mentoring, in terms of the evolvement of finance, you don't have to be an extrovert, you can be introverted, and still exceptionally good at your job. It's, it's interesting, I think it's there this vision of stereotypical accountants and finance, I think it's gone. Yes, it does exist in, in some companies, but from the companies, we deal with finances very much that integral cog in businesses, it's evolved quite a lot. But it's, it's going to be interesting to see how it goes in the next few years. Probably not as quick as what we think. But we'll see how it goes. And so looking back at your career, and what's the favourite thing that you've experienced in your career, I mean, you've, you've worked in so many different. Anne Terry 36:55 I think the favourite thing in my career is I've been involved in the development and delivery of a lot of the major infrastructure projects. So a great thing for me is to know, as I drive around Sydney or Melbourne or, you know, look internationally, that I was integrally involved in the delivery of, you know, whichever project it is. And for me now, I think also, there's that element of really giving back to the community. So I really take pride in trying to make sure that in working on these projects that we try and get the best outcomes that you possibly can for the community as a whole. And so in working on such projects, I think the best part of that is, is that you work with an amazing team. And I have to say, I've made some of the best friends over the years, you know, 20 years on where we might have worked on a site together in the Pilbara or Coffs Harbour or in Auckland, or anywhere else that I've worked. You can always go back to those friendships. And no matter how much distance you've had, because we've all worked on somewhere else in between, whether it be here or overseas, those friendships are strong for life. And that's the thing I actually value and cherish the most from what I do, I think I'm really lucky, because in a lot of careers, particularly in the finance sector, you often don't get the opportunity to build those really strong relationships, you sort of in a finance function, you perform it. And whilst you're integral, it's not always in the same kind of way where it's that team dynamic, we're all in it together, you're going to deliver something and get an outcome and then move to the next one. So yeah, it's, it's amazing. And I love what I do for that reason. Richard Holmes 38:51 That's great, isn't it? And you've touched on it a couple of times on the importance of relationships in your network. And as you said, I mean, they're, they're going to be friends for life, for what you find at work, and so knowing what you know, now, um, what would you say to your younger self, not just in regards to life and career? Anne Terry 39:12 So, in terms of life, I would say, do what makes you happy? I think I haven't always done that. I've been very career-driven and very focused. And I'm quite happy to say that I've been extremely ambitious throughout my career. Am I that way now? Yes, and no, because I recognize that you've got to get that balance. And being happy in your life every day is really important. Because unless you're happy, you can't transmit the right level of energy that you need to sort of connect with everybody and have a go and have a good life Anne Terry 39:51 effectively. So that is, that is probably the biggest thing for me now. Yeah, Richard Holmes 39:59 it's interesting and isn't it because I think when you look back at your younger self, I think when you're in your 20s, you kind of feel a lot more pressure to perform. And it's all about image and thinking overall, you're a bit more anxious, and you touched on before, about not worrying as much. It's not as it's never as bad as what it seems. Mean, it'd be good to know that when we're younger, because, for me, I Anne Terry 40:23 think it was always 40:26 I came from a Anne Terry 40:27 family where there was a lot of pressure to always, you know, be at the very top and perform and work really hard, sort of carry that throughout my entire career. Anne Terry 40:39 And Anne Terry 40:41 I reflect now, and I think, I wish someone had told me that you always do your best, but there's a point at which you kind of need to think about yourself. And that that's probably my biggest learning in life. So for me, now, I flipped it the other way, where I think I do a far better job when actually I'm happy. And for me, it's finding the right people and finding the right role to be in. When you've got that dynamic happening, and you're doing what you love. It can't get better than that. So if you're not happy, as he said earlier, don't stick with it. Get out there and find something that works for you. That's the best piece of advice I can give anybody. Richard Holmes 41:27 Yeah, no, it's true, isn't it? It's not the thing if you're happy, or you're unhappy, that affects everything, doesn't it? I mean, if you're unhappy and you take that home with you, it affects all your family and relationships. You come across some is a pretty calm and collected. chilled individual. Dee Dee Dee, do you feel pressure? Indeed? Do you get overwhelmed? And if you do, how, what do you do about it? Anne Terry 41:52 I've actually quite known for being super calm when things are not going so well. So people often look at me and think, are you okay? Like everyone around you. I think that's just part of my nature naturally. And my brother who works in construction as well has very similar nature. So maybe it's genetic. For me, I do feel stress. But I think I feel it really differently. Because I don't necessarily feel the corporate stress that people create around themselves. But I feel a really huge personal stress to actually really do my best. And that, as I mentioned comes from my upbringing. I think for me, the way I balanced that is, well being is super important. And it's about managing your own mental well being and your own physical well being. I'm an avid practitioner of Pilates, I actually spend a lot of time moving and breathing and focusing on, you know, feeling relaxed and feeling good about myself. And I think that really helps. And I think one of the things I've also realized during COVID, with the work from home environment, is you actually have to have a block of time where you can just turn off and chill out. And really just reflect and think rather than just go go go. And again, that's one of my biggest take outs and things that you know, I've been saying to everyone create that space for yourself, it's actually really energizing. And it makes you a better person. There's been a lot of from my experiences a lot of grumpy people around post COVID. So we all need that space. And we all need that time for our for ourselves. So I kind of get that balance through finding that. And, you know, even in the career I've had, unfortunately, I've always had to work really long hours, that's just part and parcel and it's very choppy. So it's either really huge hours or nothing often where the projects are going through their various waves. So you have to find a way to really disconnect and build your own sort of mental strength and positivity. 44:07 So Richard Holmes 44:08 they'll say, Oh, that's great. And then do it again, the year we've had a thing, the importance of mental health is, in terms of getting the message out, it's been brilliant this year. Well, brilliant in terms of getting the message out. And I think it's important moving forward. I think we've made a lot of inroads and well, and I think I think you've offered so much insight and advice there. That's, that's awesome. I think people listening to this podcast will get so much out of that. And it's really interesting listening to, to people like yourself and in how you manage your career in your life. It's great to see. So thanks again for being a guest. And I'm sure we'll catch up soon. Anne Terry 44:48 And thank you very much for sure. And I'd be very happy to for those listening to the podcast. I'd be very happy to connect with people and, you know, chat about my career further. Excellent. Really appreciate that. And Richard Holmes 44:59 well, let's say Let's see who comes out of it. Thanks for excellent have a good eye. She's a bye
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